insurance

[steve martland]

my insurance policy comes up for renewal in a couple of months.. at present I'm with Edward William marine services operating from spain .. reasonably priced and willing to insure a plywood wharram.. however I've not made a claim and fingers crossed don't wish to be in the position of having to.

I was reading a couple of cruising sites that are sending mixed messages about the quality of this insurance (fully comprehensive to agreed values) have any other members had experiences with this company or do you know of others that do insure 30 yo wharrams on self declarations of sea worthiness etc . . It would be embarassing to believe one is insured and find that in reality one isn't. 

[Robert Sheridan]

There are some National Authorities which vet finance companies and publish warnings - I forget the name of the one in the UK but I know it exists as there was a recent post on the Cruising Association forum about a fraudulent insurance company.  We found it difficult to get our Tiki 30 insurance renewed our insurer, St Margarets had stopped covering Wharrams and most of the other main stream insurers are the same.  We are now insured with CraftInsure.

[alex]

i got a insurance with Allianz , trough a Spanish operator, its very affordable, contact me privately if you like the contact address... i did not made a claim as well, and I was negotiating the terms before i took the insurance, because the contract supposed that the boat was in Europe , so i changed some terms after negotiate this with the operator. i suggest you consult a lawyer before close the contract. I got that guy from another Wharram owner friend. If they pay or not after a claim its still a question....

there was an article in BOAT US (i think) that was giving advice about what to include and what not to include in a contract.

alex

[alex]

my liability insurance is about 300 or so dollars a year, and i took it over the email... i mean i made all the negotiation over the internet,plus some direct calls . the guy only speaks Spanish and its a sailor as well, the contract is both, Spanish and English...

alex

[steve martland]

insurance is an evil thing perpetuated by greedy legal folk and If we are able to practice good  seamanship it would rarely be called upon.. some thing the insurance companies rely on to make a profit.. however self insurance these days is not acceptable in many situations .. marinas for example .. I think the biggest problem is there are a lot of  folk that own boats and haven't a clue about seamanship and rely on insurance companies to pull them out of the shit.. makes it hard and expensive for proper sailors ...any companies or agents that you know worth contacting I would be grateful for their names

[Robert Sheridan]

St Margarets did eventually come back with an offer of 3rd party only but I had already signed up with Craftinsure.  I agree that insurance is an evil that people get suckered into thinking they need.  However, I personally think it is worth having third party cover, unless you are confident that the oligarch whose super yacht you scraped when your anchor dragged in a hurricane will never track you down.

[Robert Hughes]

I agree with Robert.  When Zest goes back in the water I'll buy 3rd party only cover.  If something gets damaged on my boat I know I can fix it, and in the unlikely event of a total loss it's just a risk I'll take and nobody will suffer except me.  The worry is if you damage someone else's boat, or worse if you hurt somebody.  Imagine if your boat caught fire in a harbour and set light to another, or if you were motoring and didn't spot somebody snorkelling.  The prop of even a small outboard can be deadly.  All your assets (house etc) would be at risk.  Imagine if you badly injured someone who was the breadwinner for a family with kids, and with no insurance there was no money for them to survive on.  I know these are low incidence risks, but on the rare occasions they do happen they're traumatic, and I know how bad I'd feel.

[Ann and Neville Clement]

Peace IV was insured by St Margarets during her build and ever after.  The company name changed to Robin Knox Johnson and they are aware we are sailing in the US now.  It is expensive and it does help me sleep at night.  But I suppose we help them sleep at night too because I have sailed over 75,000 nautical miles so far in my life with no insurance claims ever.  Nev and I have sailed Peace IV 50,000 miles so far and I know we would love to have saved the premiums for full coverage for Peace ever since 2002 when she was launched.  But I do like to sleep at night and not worry that we will be sued or left boatless and penniless also.  Peace has been our only home except for the past year when we inherited a house.  The house is insured and the car we use when we are at the house is also insured.

We have medical insurance and in the past couple of years Nev has had two major surgeries and one major illness which cost many, many thousands of dollars.  It would all have been paid for and the care would have been good if we had been in Britain.  I am so extra grateful that we had US medical insurance.  The hospital cost could have wiped us out over here.

Someday we will have to sell this boat and get something smaller for our old age.  Meanwhile, Peace will be insured and so will the next boat.  Someday we will sell the house and get something smaller.  Meanwhile the house we inherited will be insured and so will the smaller one we eventually buy.  Same with cars.  Insurance makes sense to me.  I had an accident about 55 years ago on a rain slick road with a grease spill.  I was glad to be insured then and drive more relaxed ever since.  I am careful and I am insured also.  Life is real and s*** happens.  I got us covered.

But each one makes their own decisions and I understand that some folks do not like to pay for insurance.  Just do your thing and don't hit us and leave us to do our thing.  I think we are extremely unlikely to hit you.

Ann

[Robert Sheridan]

Anne,

Apologies, I rather overstated my views in saying 'evil', my professional life has led me to meet poor people who have been convinced to buy expensive insurance they did not need and personally I have had a bad experience with a healthcare insurer.

I too have house, boat and car insurance and I also have professional liability insurance and am well aware of the need for healthcare insurance in the states (and how expensive it is as I have friends there who could not afford it).

The point I was making was that even if one does feel the need to insure a boat for loss (for instance because it is small and of low value) it may be a good idea to protect yourself from the risk of something happening outside of your control for which you might be liable or be accused of being liable.  An apocryphal story is that one of the big rowing clubs on the  Thames did not insure their boats as it was expensive so if there was incident their starting point was that it was the other persons fault and they were very good at fighting their corner.

I have made 2 claims on boats in my life and neither was caused by anything I had or had not done: a hobie I owned was rammed by an unidentified fishing boat on the Tyne when it was being sailed by someone else (very experienced) and years later there was the occaision I found my Hinemoa 'Sealark'  holed on her mooring just before I went abroad for work so could not do the repair myself.

Interestingly, In both cases if it had been a monohull the boat would have sunk and probably been a write off so you would think that it made the case for cats being less of a liability than monoulls.

Bottom line: it is as you say a personal cost/benefit and risk assessment for every individual.

I asked St Margarets why they would not renew the policy when I wanted to extend it beyond British waters and they would not give me an answer other than a change in policy with regard to insuring Catamarrans.  I was dealing with St Margarets directly, maybe I would have fared better via a broker (though that is another mine field).

Robert

Ann and Neville Clement said:

Peace IV was insured by St Margarets during her build and ever after.  The company name changed to Robin Knox Johnson and they are aware we are sailing in the US now.  It is expensive and it does help me sleep at night.  But I suppose we help them sleep at night too because I have sailed over 75,000 nautical miles so far in my life with no insurance claims ever.  Nev and I have sailed Peace IV 50,000 miles so far and I know we would love to have saved the premiums for full coverage for Peace ever since 2002 when she was launched.  But I do like to sleep at night and not worry that we will be sued or left boatless and penniless also.  Peace has been our only home except for the past year when we inherited a house.  The house is insured and the car we use when we are at the house is also insured.

We have medical insurance and in the past couple of years Nev has had two major surgeries and one major illness which cost many, many thousands of dollars.  It would all have been paid for and the care would have been good if we had been in Britain.  I am so extra grateful that we had US medical insurance.  The hospital cost could have wiped us out over here.

Someday we will have to sell this boat and get something smaller for our old age.  Meanwhile, Peace will be insured and so will the next boat.  Someday we will sell the house and get something smaller.  Meanwhile the house we inherited will be insured and so will the smaller one we eventually buy.  Same with cars.  Insurance makes sense to me.  I had an accident about 55 years ago on a rain slick road with a grease spill.  I was glad to be insured then and drive more relaxed ever since.  I am careful and I am insured also.  Life is real and s*** happens.  I got us covered.

But each one makes their own decisions and I understand that some folks do not like to pay for insurance.  Just do your thing and don't hit us and leave us to do our thing.  I think we are extremely unlikely to hit you.

Ann

[Ian]

I wanted insurance for trailing.

I got it though had no "number" and have moved the boat on the road without any problem and will reconsider it later.

Self-built Wharrams seem to be "worth" moneywise ****-all,  let's keep it that way out of the finance-hawks!