Cruising weight - crossing the safety line

[Tony Nannette Brett]

Our Tiki 46 was born heavy - none of this anticipated lightweight bobbing and bouncing around for our baby! As soon as she was launched it was evident that she was sitting slap dab on her water line. The addition of sails, some equipment, minimal water, fuel & food etc turned the 'nipping the waterline' into a squatting the waterline! 

We've had some input from Hanneke about water lines and safety margins - and she made the excellent suggestion that we also pose the question to the wider Wharram community so that we can all benefit from folks practical based experience.

So please ... all input welcomed. Share your experiences.

What do you sail? What are your loading experiences? How have your boats handled under what sorts of loads in what sort of weather? We're especially interested to hear from Tiki 46 sailors, but thoughts, experiences, input and advice from our wider community so that others can benefit from (what I hope) will be a deluge of wonderfully informative information is welcomed.

Regards,

Nannette & Tony

Boundless Tu.

 

[Tony Nannette Brett]

Hello to all,

We sincerely thank everybody for their posts to date – we appreciate your time and efforts, however, we feel that the topic is moving away from the question we posed in our original post.

We would ask folks to please re-read our original posting – we took great care to ensure it kept well away from even naming our Builder, let alone instigating/encouraging discussions about allocating blame or responsibility and we certainly have no intention of entering into a blame-game/slanging match.

We’d also ask folks to respect the fact that not everybody has regular access to this forum  – some can access daily, others only weekly, others even longer.

We encourage the discussion to return to the question as originally posed ie.  What do you sail, what are your loading experiences, how has your boat handled under what sort of loads in what sort of weather.  Does anybody have experience of how their boat handles if loaded such that the chine is buried under the water?

As to solutions – some options for weight reduction are forthcoming from Hanneke (padding out the lower part of the hulls with foam similar to Natural High)  – and we are also awaiting input from a naval architect.  We will pass on the assessments and suggested solutions as they come to hand.

Regards

Nannette & Tony

 

[Robert Sheridan]

A multi hull book I read years ago made the point that all boats (like garages and lofts) accumulate stuff that is not actually needed.  As multi hulls are weight sensitive the suggestion was that you should always take something off the boat every time you leave her, especially if you brought a new fitting on.

We have a tiki 30 which in basic cruising mode floats on the design lines.  When we added a pod and loaded her up to go off on an extended cruise she sank down to just below the chines.  This did not seem to effect her performance, but it did made us think carefully about what we have on board and make some choices: the sailrite sewing machine and rarely used tools were left behind, our third anchor is an aluminium one, if we decide to do a transatlantic the brompton bicycles will be left behind and we will get a water maker, if water line goes above the chine we have the option of replacing our slatted wood foredeck with netting, and so forth.  Another compromise we made is to limit the amount of fuel we carry, which means we can not guarantee an average speed but the challenge of using only the wind is very rewarding.

The other thing to think about to save weight is to try and make anything you have on board do more than one job so that you reduce the number of items you need to carry.

Fully loaded the worst weather we have encountered to date was beating into a F6-7 with short seas when crossing Lyme Bay in the UK; this did not pose any problems.  At the other end of the spectrum we were managing to sail at 1.5 kn in a F0-1.

[Bertrand FERCOT]

I don't know how many Tiki46 have been launched today but in searching on my computer and on the web, I found 9 pictures where it's possible to see their waterline.

The advantage with the Tiki range is they have a chine which provides a good reference to know easily how they are loaded. So as a picture is better than 1000 words, have a look at this 9 Tiki 46 :

APATIKI   Propulsion : Hybrid serial (one 10kw diesel generator + 2x10kw electric engine pods + 2x10KW/h battery banks)

FOLLOWER   Propulsion : 2x30HP outboards

GRAND PHA   Propulsion : Hybrid parallel ( in each hull a diesel Beta25 with in parallel a 10kw electric engine + 10kw/h battery bank + 960W solar panels)

PEACE 4    Propulsion : 2x15HP (or 20HP?) outboards

SANYASIN    Propulsion : 2x20HP?  outboards

SHARK    Propulsion : 2 outboards?

TRISKELL    Propulsion?

W-24318    Propulsion : a 50HP diesel driving one hydraulic motor in each hull

WAKATAITEA     Propulsion :   a central 27HP diesel with a long shaft

SEASCAPE Tiki46 who seems to be the Tiki 46 N°3 (SANYASIN)

Although the boat is empty with no masts, no rig, no pod, no anchors with chain, no deck gears it seems to be already well deep in the water!

According the waterline we can see that all this boats have a weight of a minimum of 9T. Some of these boats sail long voyages without problems. And it's interesting to see that although they have different systems of propulsion and different rigs with modified pod or no pod and with or without hard bimini, they have all their waterline at the same level very near of the chine.

The Tiki 46 is not  a boat to spend a few weeks per year on holiday, but a boat to live aboard at full time and it's normal all the boats have their waterline very near of the chine.

On my study plan the draft is  0.9m , but now in having a look at the Wharram.com it's indicated 1.1m ! :

The problem with these datas is we don't know with which kind of plywood and timbers they are calculated.

According my own experience, I think  the loading capacity of 4T includes the engines, the batteries, rig, anchors+chains, deck and inside equipment, etc. so the real payload is in fact only the half and sometimes less according the density of the wood and the choice of the equipments.

If you find another photos of Tiki 46 waterline  it should be interested to put them here and Nanette & Tony, we should be pleased to see some photos of your boat showing her waterline.

Best regards

Bertrand

[Tony Nannette Brett]

Thanks for your input Robert & thanks Bertrand for the obvious time and effort you've put into researching and posting those pictures.  

I am just back from a field trip and am scheduled to leave again shortly - so time is short. I won't have access to the internet while I'm away, so I take this opportunity to remind people that we are not interested in entering (or encouraging) any sort of debate or blame game as happened before.

We are only interested in postings as per our original question ...... ie.  What do you sail, what are your loading experiences, and how has your boat handled under what sort of loads in what sort of weather.  Does anybody have experience of how their boat handles if loaded such that the chine is buried under the water?

As requested, I've posted a photo of our boat, which was taken immediately after launch - her load at that stage was minimal equipment, no sails, about 150Ltr fuel and 200Ltr water.

Regards, Tony

Nannette & Tony

 

 

 

[wakataitea]

bernard, nice post;;;;

thanks for this;;;; and you are right. it is a boat to life on not to race on weekends???

interessting the change of the data on the wharram page

Nannette and tony,

 i hope you didn,t get me wrong but it happens fast on open spaces like this one. people come up with ideas and talk talk talk and the whole story goes in a different direction. 

enjoy the time on your  nice boat,,,,

cheers hans

[Alex]

From "Multihull Voyaging" by Thomas Firth Jones -" For reasons that are not clear even to Jim, his boats have always tolerated overloading better than most multihull s".

[wakataitea]

a few days after launching the boat... we are happy to see, that we are not much more down in the water now...

[Galway Bay]

One picture is worth a thousand words....Thank you Bertrand from me too.

The early posts left me and I imagine many others with the impression that this boat was built of lead !! It seems now you are not so much out-of-step after all.

Good luck !!  Bonne Chance !! Go n-Eiri an Bothar Leat  -  well it is almost St. Patrick's Day !!

[Ann and Neville Clement]

HI Everybody, 

     Tony and Nanette, your boat is totally beautiful and you should just stop worrying.  She's going to sail fine and do you proud.  I hope to remove about 400 pounds of books and maybe another 400 pounds of extra food from our boat because Nev just got an electronic book thingy and we now know where to buy food cheap in Bahamas.  Yes, Jean Paul is right about not putting too much stuff aboard.  We need to take everything out of each part of the boat and select what to put back.  Then we could have a great cruiser equivalent of a yard sail or boat jumble all by ourselves!  Your boat looks like she is not much different than the others in Bertran's collection of photographs. 

[Cute Helles]

Here is a foto of my boat, Apsara, plan no 7, built 2001 - 2006

 

[Ann and Neville Clement]

Confession time.  Peace IV was built light and she shows it now that she is empty except for full water tanks.  She has her chine about 7 inches above the water amidships today.  But over the past few weeks we took off one heck of a lot of stuff and it embarrasses us what we had aboard.  Peace had about five inches worth of  stuff loaded on her.  .  I think she sailed well and was safe when we put over 50,000 miles on her while she was so fully loaded with extra more load.  The speed was good and we are not great sailors speed wise.  12 and 14 knots were quite common and she did 16 on occasion.  I think she would be ultra fast if she were kept light and I hope her next owner will do just that and let her sail fast as she was designed to do.

So what should you do now that your boat is already heavy.  I think a watermaker would be better than heavy full tanks.  I think you must not be hoarders of stuff like Nev with his tool shed and spares lockers and stuff he might need someday but would never be able to find if that day ever came because of all the other stuff packed in there.  And do not be like Ann with her 3 or 4 months worth of food aboard in tins and such always.  Just be reasonable. 

Get alloy masts. 

If you ever need different engines, go for outboards.  Two 20 hp outboards are great and not heavy.

I really think you will be safe.  But if Peace IV gets a new owner (she is for sale now) and if the new owner likes speed, and keeps her light, then you are going to have to buy their beer at the end of the races.  Your good boat will be good and safe but a little slower.  That never bothers me at all.  We take our reefs early and often.  Slow is more day dreamy and that is what I like best about sailing anyway.

Send pics of your boat!  I have written with you folks a lot since you started.  Never saw your boat yet!!!

Love and congratulations.  Now stop worrying and go have some fun!

Ann and Nev