Thinkng of making a big mistake...opinions solicited.

[clif high]

I am thinking of buying an old mark 1 tangaroa. It would then have to be restored, and refurbished, and then refitted for my needs. It is not as large as i would have wanted, but is available, and (yet sight unseen) is solid enough (built 1979) to be a suitable foundation for a new vessel. (may get to have a look later this week or next).

What kind of drugs can i take to NOT do this?  What do i need to know to shake out of my delusion?

I would have to take the boat down some of the most trafficed waters in Puget Sound (Ballard down east passage past seattle to olympia...some 65 kmiles). then do most of the work on the water at local marina (pain in the butt as i would need to commute to it.

So, what size outboard would be necessary to drive the boat at 6kts? Any ideas?

Can you put a pilot house on a tangaroa without seriously damaging capacity? Any plans for these available? What about new drawings for mods for them to 'upgrade' the design?

I am going to go crab claw rig on any wharram i end up with...any body ever done a crab claw conversion to a tangaroa? pictures available?

Can a tangarora be lifted out (straps, marina based rolling crane, that sort of thing)?

Thanks. Still really looking for reasons to NOT get into yet another building project. Rather would just like to get on with the work of sailing, and using the boat for our biz purpose that originally put me onto the wharrams as a class of boat, but there are not a whole lot of available Wharrams up here in the great NW.

Help...please, let us rack up the reasons to not do this....

[Carl]

Clif,
Reading your message above tells me you've made up your mind and you're going for it!
Reasons to walk away despite making up your mind would be rot. If you find it in one place, it's bound to be found elsewhere on the boat. Tap every square inch of the hulls to listen for that give-away dead thud which spells out rot. Check the beams for the same too, and to an extent the masts, assuming they're wood (although you'd replace these seeing you want to change the rig).
The good thing about the Mk I compared to the MK IV is there are no beam boxes as these are prone to rot.
As far as outboards go, personally I'd fit 2 x 9.9 Yamaha's or similar. If just one motor, at least a 15Hp, all would need to be long shaft.
Pilot houses have been fitted to Tangaroa's, and they do take up space, but if built correctly, add very useable and practical space. Most I've seen are home-ideas so don't believe there are plans as such, but I would stick to a design similar to what is proposed on the Tiki 30's etc.

Depending on the amount of work you plan to do, it is a lot easier to do it out the water. Having to get plywood across to a mooring is no easy task, let alone cutting and fitting it etc. Is there anywhere you can beach the boat? Would you intend on using a generator for power tools?

I've seen Wharrams lifted out the water with straps, but I don't like that idea. When my Mk IV went back into the water, the marina had 2 beams which we placed beneath (perpendicular to) the hulls. Straps connected to these which was an easy lift. The straps at no stage touched the hulls, and there was no stress on any component of the hulls or beams.

The only drug I can suggest is reviewing your own bank account and ability to make it happen (or not). Someone once said to me when taking on a project, estimate what you believe it will cost you, then double it to get an accurate idea of costs. They were so right! Either way good luck with it and if you go for it, keep us informed of progress!

[Kevin Hutchinson]

Cliff, I think Carl gave alot of good advice.However why do you want a crab claw rig?I know it looks cool and a few people like them. I built one for my 16' outrigger. The mast is short but the yards are long and ungainlly. I think there is more weight aloft because of this. The crab claw is also inefficient to reef. I found no lifting and vortex effect lots of people claim. To boot the rig is terrible to windward. I think my tacking angle was something like 120 degrees. In a lot of wind I think it would be dangerous to control. If the crab claw was so great all the racing boats would be using them. I think the best rig for a cat is what is used on most production cats the 3/4 rig with full battened main. Good luck on your project looking forward to your posts on this sight....Kevin

[Brian Gartland]

Two days ago my MKIV with a Honda 15 did eight knots at half throttle in a light chop and ten at full throttle. Granted she doesn't have any weight in her right now but I think a forty horse would be way too much. I question whether you would get much more speed from the extra horsepower and the weight of one of those beasts would definitely hurt you, not to mention the extra gas you would burn. There's no tide in Lake Michigan but I have motored her upwind in heavy weather and had no problems. Good luck!

[boatsmith]

The newer Yamaha 15 and 20 are the same motor except the crank has 3mm more stroke on the 20. It would make sense to get the bigger motor and have more power in reserve. David

[Budget Boater]

Clif,

From a man who has done almost exactly what you are contemplating, I would highly suggest that you DO NOT DO IT!

I rebuilt and refit a Tangaroa MKIV back in my mid 20's. Once it was opened up, the horror of the amount of work became more real than I had ever expected. No matter what I did, the boat was never "right." I have since built several Wharrams from scratch, and can honestly say rebuilding the Tangaroa was the hardest and most painful of them all.

[Ann and Neville Clement]

You have had some very good advice here. We also restored an old, well rotted boat. It is hard work and what you end up with is an old boat. Some folks adore this kind of work and there is a word for them. They are saviors and saints too. But it is hard work. Building a new Wharram is also hard work but when you finish, you have a new boat. Some folks adore doing boat building. For myself, I just adore sailing boats, can tolerate boat building, and would never try to restore an old rotted boat again.

The main thing you want to decide is if you are the kind of person with enough discipline and determination to either restore or build new. Do you have the skills or can you gain them? Will you finish the project? If not, then go buy a new or newish boat and forget about it.

There is tremendous satisfaction from doing a job well. There is a tremendous yuck factor from doing a job poorly or failing to finish.

Think carefully and then know that this website has a whole lot of knowledge to share with you. Good luck whatever you decide.

Love, Ann and Nev

[clif high]

i have a crab on my umiak now. It is great. I do not have the fixed point type, and can forward haul to either side. Yes, more weight aloft, but actually easier to reef...just slack the main sheet to spill, then lower the halyard , or with my approach single handed i slack the main sheet, then slack the windward side foresheet, and haul tight the lee ward sheet which makes the point of the claw jump from mast to near to equal with the bow. This lowers the ce and shifts it forward, so a slight adjustment of the lee board (now center board since umiak is now trimaran with some big plastic pipe ama's). And even though i sewed this crab myself, i get lift with either form, forward crab point or mast bound (light airs). Don't know about the vortex effect you are citing. Plenty of lift even, and especially close hauled. However, usually i am running with the point forward when close, so the sail is more bermuda rig looking then. Still has better performance though. Can understand your experience. Frequently the crab is reduced in efficiency by binding the point of the claw to the mast base. However it is great in the capricious winds of the salish sea (puget sound north america) as you can reach high for vapors and tree farts, and then down low to moderate to the frequent gales. And, the crab can easily be set up to spill the wind, rather than your umiak (very light weight cloth boat 21feet low, 25ft loa, 168 sq ft sail, weight about 500 pounds for the boat and all gear excepting batteries).

[clif high]

Done. Whew....narrowly escaped certain doom there. Thanks. Nearing 60 so don't really want yet another building project. And the thought of the dreaded ROT did the trick. Been there, suffered that...so not again. Am after a Pahi (i like the hawai'i look), or a tiki of 42 or larger size. Real damn problem is that i provide care services here and have so few days that going to east coast or gulf is out of question. Just no time. So was tempted by the idea of a tangaroa... although it is really too small,and old. it would have been marginally worked while more gnawing on how to get a larger cat was done. Spoke to a pro boat builder up here about building, but the costs are serious. So. Back to gnawing and getting the trailer fixed to get the crabby umiak out again. No damn summer weather really in puget sound. Bad for the morale, but decent winds in our near fall conditions..

[andy solywoda]

Cliff,
There are 2 kinds of boats that are worthwhile. The first kind is small with no maintenance, like a beach cat, or a windsurger. Lots of enjoyment for the amount of pain. A folding kayak can be good.
The second kind is a boat that is big enough to live on, then it is just as worthwhile as building a house, but a house can't travel around, and a live aboard boat is a way to enter that world of the waterfront, the sea life.
Happy sailing,
Captn Andy and the Kaimu Crew

[WaveDancer & Bella]

LOL yes simply buy a well maintained boat and go sailing - some people are sailors some builders few do both.

[andy solywoda]

Why didn't I copyright WINDSURGER ?,

[Bill Ludeman]

Charlie said:

A 15 hp outboard will be too small. They're only about 250cc arent they? Doesn't seem like much.... I would think at least 40 hp would be required in any sort of weather or tide.