looking for a way to improve upwind sailing.

[Bart]

Hi, I am in the process of restoring a wharram tiki 30, and think it should perform better than it does now.

What kind of angle is normal for a tiki 30?

Below i added  photo's of my chart plotter and main sail.

My sails are about 6 years old, but might have seen more uv light than they should.  I am putting more and more tension on the outhoul on the gaff witch help to get a more flat sail.

This winter i also want to apply a new coat of anti fouling paint,   this is one of the jobs a bit lower on the to-do list, i had to fix other things first... i have some growth on the hulls.

the boat is not to heavy on the helm, it just wants to turn a bit to the wind. is that okay or should i trim it really neutral?

any idea's?

Thanks a lot!

Bart

[boatsmith]

Firstly any growth at all will hammer your upwind performance. The Tiki 30 has a relatively, for Wharrams, large sail area to displacement ratio. For boats in general that sail well to windward the SA/D is relatively small.

These are my opinions so feel free to disagree.

A taller mast with a full batten big roach main and bigger genoa will perk up the weather performance considerably. Modern sail materials, construction, and design allow for a much more efficient sails and sail handling systems. That doesn't mean that other ways aren't good. 

There are many factors to consider when choosing a rig. There are ways to increase windward performance albeit  possibly with more cost, complexity, and a different aesthetic.

These are pleasure boats and that makes them like women. We don't all go for the same ones.

[Bart]

Hi Boatmith and edward, thanks vor your reply!

I think i underestimated the effect of some growth on the hulls, but that will be fixed next winter when i have to paint the bottom en sides of the boat.  for now i will scrub her when on a beach i think. 

I know this rig isn't the greatist performer when it comes to power and upwind performance. A friend of mine is building al f31 farrier, and that will be faster but  only the mast and sails are so much more expensive and complex.. beautiful, but i like the simplicity of the wharrams. I still like to get the best of it..

I was not sure about the sails, i find it difficult to see where the deepest point of the profile is, thanks to the sleeve  i think.

but just the age is probably a reaonable indicator.

Nevertheless, what kind of tacking angles are to be espected? my former boat was a monohull so i am quite a beginner in multihull country. 

Possebly i should look at the vmg windward as a indicator for performance, not just the angle.

As new sails not cheap,  this might be the moment to ad a meter or so to the mast and get new sails then?

I am not a blue water sailor just coastral waters in the netherlands so staying upright in high winds is not that much of a problem, i will be in a harbour by then.

I ll go asking jeckells about the sails/ options.

Thanks again,

Regards, Bart

[Marty Peters]

Expect to easily get 50 degrees off the apparent wind, anything higher than that depends on conditions. Pointing up on a wharram can be an exercise in finesse. A big sea will kill your speed and your pointing ability.

Some pointers on getting the most out of the windsail.

1. Boat speed. Don't try to point high until you have some good speed. As the speed drops then bear off a little until it builds again then head up again. If you try to point too high you'll have full sails and no speed and therefore you'll get lots of leeway.

2. Don't oversheet the mainsail. As there is no boom then the mainsheet acts kinda like the outhaul on a boom. This flattens the sail in a blow and adds shape when the wind is light.  

3. If you don't have a traveler then make / install one immediately. when i had my tiki 30 i didn't have a traveller for the first few years and when i finally got around to fitting one it made a world of difference. Use the mainsheet to get the best sail shape then use the traveller to set the position of the clew. In strong wind you need a flat sail ( lots of mainsheet tension) and in lighter winds you need a sail with more shape, i.e. fuller. Play around with the traveller position and you'll find that sometimes you'll have a nice full sail with the traveller well to windward to help get the sail positioned along the centreline.

4. Play around with the gaff position. Lots of peak halyard tension for upwind in breezy conditions  and less for a fuller sail in light winds.

5. If you have too much weather helm, drop the traveller to leeward a few inches at a time till its acceptable.

6. Try a barber hauler on your jib sheets to get the lead more to the centreline of the boat. 

7. Make sure the rig is tight. A floppy / sagging forestay will kill pointing ability. To get the rig tight, slacken the shrouds and tighten the forestay. Then tighten the shrouds. I found that you can get the shrouds really tight if you attach all 4 shrouds then run a line between the port and starboard forward shrouds and pull them inwards towards each other. this will take up the slack and tension the rig. Now the aft shrouds will be floppy. Take up the slack until they are tight then release the rope between theforward shrouds. Then Put the frapping line between the stern shrouds and repeat, by taking the slack out of the forward shrouds. Keep going till the shrouds are tight.

Hope this helps.

Marty

[Roger]

I use a 2:1 purchase on the peak halyard, a 2:1 on the throat halyard, a 3:1 on the cunningham, a 2:1 on the downhaul (standard Wharram on the front of the mast) and a 5:1 on the mainsheet (changing soon to a 6:1). I find that in strong winds (common on SF Bay where I sail) that pulling on all four corners of the mainsail is necessary to get the shape you need. When you make the sail flat with all of these purchases, the boat can really go to weather in strong winds. I am most surprised by the 2:1 on the throat halyard which has really made a difference to the shape at the front of the sail - just shows that to get shape along the luff of the sail, you need to pull it at both ends - not just the bottom. My mainsail is no longer new, but with the combined throat and cunningham purchases I can get the draft forward in strong winds, instead of the belly in the after-half of the sail which is common on the Wharram rig when the wind is up..

[Ian Bamsey]

With the 2:1 on the peak and throat, do you find the extra halyard lengths a pain to handle around the base of the mast / on the deck? 

[Roger]

I do it like this, which I think might leave less line on deck. Anyway, I've got used to it already with the 2:1 on the peak halyard.

[Ian Bamsey]

With this set up, you still end up with two mast lengths on the deck when hoisted ? (I think it's unavoidable when there's a mechanical advantage)

[Roger]

Yes, there is quite a lot of line on the deck, but its not as bad as you would think. Well worth it for the ability to trim the sail. Its also easier to pull the sail up!

[Maxim Jurgens]

Goedemorgen Bart vanuit Thailand 

we have two Tiki 30's rigged as per plans ,so with the  Tiki wingsail . 

Over time we have found that  for best performance, windward as well as other wise : 

- mainsail should be cut FLAT , no belly at all, flat as a pancake

- "tuneability" of the sail is important ,so you do want a mainsheet  traveller  and you do want 2: 1 halyards to make tensioning them easier, also when under load .The extra line clutter compared with a single purchase is but a small price to pay for much better tuneability . Sticking a good number of tell tales on main and jib makes tuning a lot easier. 

- Adjusting and tensioning the halyards ( as well as dropping the sail in adverse conditions) is soooo much easier if you run the down ward part of the halyards outside the sleeve of the mainsail rather then trough it. Just make sturdy cleats screwed  into the top of the mast beam about a meter from the mast , no block at deck level needed . Price you pay compared with a  halyard run through the sleeve is a slightly increased wear on your peak halyard as the gaff will rub against it . We still get 4 years or more  out of a ( peak ) halyard so it is not really a problem .

- Forestay tension Is important if you have a roller reefed jib. If you have a hanked on jib then it matters   less as the tension that counts is the one of the luff of the jib. We have a new "Hitia 26 " ( T 26 hulls  but no cabins , wider beams , larger rig ,big flat deck ,Cookie style . On this boat we do not have a roller furler but a hanked on jib with two reefs.  Forestay is not attached to a bridle but to a beam with a gull striker. Jib halyard is single purchase, luff tension is achieved by a 2: 1 down haul , led back to  the foredeck where there is a small winch . This way you can achieve really serious luff tension. We are still test sailing the boat but it is already clear that  the boat has very good windward performance.

Hope this helps 

                    Maxim Jurgens 

                         Siam Sailing, Phuket

[Bart]

Thank you for al good advice!, I had 3 tell tales on the rear edge of my main sail, en 2 pairs  8 inch or so from te front in the jib. I just bought a couple extra. this weekend i''l get new halyards, and get a 2:1 setup. I already had a 3:1 downhoul on the main.

Now i am the only one aboard to get the sails up, with a 2: 1 setup i hope my wife can do it to.

Tension on the forestay is difficult to achieve, i bought new stainles steel shrouds and have to re-tension them almost daily.. I do have a roller jib, and realy dislike the profile when reefed.( it is really not flat enough) I think i'll buy a smaller jib to hoist in hard wind,

When tensioning the halyard of the jib i put a half hitch.( thank you google) ( halve steek" in dutch) and feed de halyard down the clamp, back up to the not and back to the cleat again. A crude 2:1 setup.  That helps.

I gues thestay- tension will be alright in a couple of days with some wind.

I go scrubbing the hulls very carefully, and get some good antifouling next season.

And to test the results in time, do you guys know what kind of vmg i should achieve? I am going to test and record and post the results.

Thanks a lot so far!

Regards,

Bart

[Björn]

Maxim,

interesting comment you are making about being able to drop the sail under any conditions. I have had issues with it because the gaff and the sail has been pressed against the shrouds that I had virtually no chance in taking  the sails down except going pretty much into the wind.

Another comment on the tacking, I can be happy if I get a tacking angle of about 130° while doing some reasonable speed (Tiki 38). This is quite pain because all the monohulls (even the smaller ones) just sail away. When I was racing in a catamaran fleet last year (admittedly virtually no wind, see https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=938638896200760&set=a.9...). All the other other multihulls were passing by, worse after I had an excellent start position and have been dinghy racing a lot when I was younger

I think the Wharrams need quite bit of wind to go and are better off the wind and our expectations should not be too high.

Björn

[Maxim Jurgens]

Bjoern:

Re dropping the main . Try running your halyards OUTSIDE the sleeve.The reduction in friction is very considerable , it makes hoisting and ropping the sail much easier . And : make a 4 mm line between the jaws of your gaffs with a loop knotted in the middle lenght of the line 2-4 x the width of the gap be tween the jaws . ( this line is in front of the mast . In the loop you tie a 6 or 8 mm line which you lead to the deck  You use this line to pull the sail down when it does not want to come easily by itself . Next time your sail is at the sail makers you ask him to sea on some small D rings on the front of the sleeve through which you can lead this "pull  down " line .

Schooner rigged T 38's could probably do with some more fore sail area . If I had one I'd make a bow sprit of some sort to be able to carry a larger jib. As with most cats when tacking it is very useful if you back the jib to help the bow getting through the wind .

Cheers & best regards 

                                        Maxim Jurgens 

                                            Siam Sailing, Phuket