Loss of our Rights.

[Budget Boater]

I am sorry, but I had to post this. Things are getting out of hand.



So, if I am reading this right, "they" want to set up an unconstitutional legal system whereby "they" can jail suspects that "they" label as "terrorists" without charge and make the trials secret?

Read the whole New York Times article here.

By SHERYL GAY STOLBERG
Published: May 20, 2009
WASHINGTON — President Obama told human rights advocates at the White House on Wednesday that he was mulling the need for a “preventive detention” system that would establish a legal basis for the United States to incarcerate terrorism suspects who are deemed a threat to national security but cannot be tried, two participants in the private session said.

The discussion, in a 90-minute meeting in the Cabinet Room that included Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. and other top administration officials, came on the eve of a much-anticipated speech Mr. Obama is to give Thursday on a number of thorny national security matters, including his promise to close the detention center at the naval base in Guantánamo Bay, Cuba.

Click the link above as there is more of this article that is disturbing.

Of course, you also have the Patriot Act which allows for "terror" suspects to be detained without charge or trial. "Terrorist" is not defined enough to delineate between a citizen teenager who makes prank phone calls or a person with a bomb strapped to their waist.

You have the Military Commissions Act of 2006,which allows for the indefinite imprisonment of anyone who ... speaks out against the government's policies, and also allows for secret trials for citizens and noncitizens alike.

Why are more people not crazy ass mad about this? These things fly directly in the face of our Constitution!!

If this tyranny can happen in the US, the tyranny will soon follow to those of you living in other countries.

[Ann and Neville Clement]

When I was in school, we had a class called "civics" where we studied the constitution, generally learned the legal system, and how American freedoms came to be. It was interesting, but I did not understand how important it was until I learned that "civics" are no longer taught in the schools. So today's young adults and kids do not know about that part of our history or rights.

[Norman edward stark]

How about an up date on the 38 you are building! Any new photos?

[Brian Gartland]

This is a phony debate manufactured by the republican party and designed exactly to get people "crazy ass mad" so they'll stop talking about more important things like health care and carbon emissions. Constitutional questions are better handled by the courts than by public indignation. The problem is that the legal system works much slower, as it should, than the 24 hour media cycle. There is really no point in getting yourself worked up about an issue that needs no champion. A more beneficial use of your time would be to write your congressman and tell them what kind of healthcare system you want, or just go do some more sanding. Don't worry, these constitutional questions WILL be answered.

[Budget Boater]

Phony? Republican Party? Manufactured? Designed?

Huh? From what planet have you descended?

First you are calling me a Republican, which I am not. Second you say that it is manufactured by a party which does not represent me. Hmmm. Seeing as how it was reported by the most liberal newspaper in the country about the words of our liberal president, how in the world do you get manufactured by Republicans out of that?

It is a FACT that the Military Commissions Act exists.
It is a FACT that the Patriot Act exists.
It is a FACT that these tyrannical Executive Orders exist along with many others (perpetrated by all presidents since Ford, regardless of party affiliation):
EXECUTIVE ORDER 10990
allows the government to take over all modes of transportation and control of highways and seaports.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 10995
allows the government to seize and control the communication media.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 10997
allows the government to take over all electrical power, gas, petroleum, fuels and minerals.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 10998
allows the government to seize all means of transportation, including personal cars, trucks or vehicles of any kind and total control over all highways, seaports, and waterways.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 10999
allows the government to take over all food resources and farms.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11000
allows the government to mobilize civilians into work brigades under government supervision.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11001
allows the government to take over all health, education and welfare functions.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11002
designates the Postmaster General to operate a national registration of all persons.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11003
allows the government to take over all airports and aircraft, including commercial aircraft.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11004
allows the Housing and Finance Authority to relocate communities, build new housing with public funds, designate areas to be abandoned, and establish new locations for populations.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11005
allows the government to take over railroads, inland waterways and public storage facilities.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11051
specifies the responsibility of the Office of Emergency Planning and gives authorization to put all Executive Orders into effect in times of increased international tensions and economic or financial crisis.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11310
grants authority to the Department of Justice to enforce the plans set out in Executive Orders, to institute industrial support, to establish judicial and legislative liaison, to control all aliens, to operate penal and correctional institutions, and to advise and assist the President.

You see Brian, you have fallen into the trap of actually being divided by the left/right paradigm. They have pulled the wool over your eyes making you believe that there is a substantial difference between liberal and conservative politicians. What they say in public to rally the "vote," is much different from what they do in the end. The fact is, that they seek to keep us divided with ridiculous arguments that in the end will have little to no bearing on our lives, while they plunder and pillage our beloved Constitution and erode the rights of everyone in this nation.

Our legal system has had plenty of opportunity to right the wrongs of our elected officials dating back to July 9, 1868, yet have not. So, if you wish to believe that our legal system will eventually get around to restoring the wrongs made to our rights after 141 years of not doing so, you are truly blinded by the system.

Now to address your other topics. Healthcare: Hmmm, let's see....in a Republic, no one is guaranteed healthcare. They are only guaranteed the rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness (property.) Why should I, or anyone else, be "forced" to pay for a bunch of fat gluttoness slobs, chain smokers, and thrill seekers? We shouldn't under the laws of a Republic. So what do I want out of health care? For the politicians to get the hell out of health care.

Carbon Emissions: Hmmm, another fascinating topic....science has proven that carbon emissions rise after warming of the earth has occurred, not the other way around. So, what do you think that any human can do about Earth's natural cycles? Not one thing. I bet you are one of those people who actually says, "we (humans) are destroying the earth." I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the earth existed long before humans, and it will exist long after we kill ourselves off. Whatever humans do, whatever we create, it will recycle it and there will be no trace that we ever existed 40,000,000 years after we are gone. We are but a gnat on the ass of an elephant.

So what do I write my congressman about? Get out of healtcare. Get out of global warming heresy. Give us our rights and liberty back. We were born with the right to live free, and you seem to be OK with having your rights taken from you by the few. Sad really, considering that when they take your rights, they are taking everyone's rights.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot: Sanding. When you sand epoxy, paint, or other chemical compounds, it releases known dangerous chemicals into the air. Definitely dangerous to humans, not so much to the earth. So by telling me that I should "just go do some more sanding," are you indirectly telling me I should go kill myself? ;)


Brian Gartland said:

This is a phony debate manufactured by the republican party and designed exactly to get people "crazy ass mad" so they'll stop talking about more important things like health care and carbon emissions. Constitutional questions are better handled by the courts than by public indignation. The problem is that the legal system works much slower, as it should, than the 24 hour media cycle. There is really no point in getting yourself worked up about an issue that needs no champion. A more beneficial use of your time would be to write your congressman and tell them what kind of healthcare system you want, or just go do some more sanding. Don't worry, these constitutional questions WILL be answered.

[Brian Gartland]

Wow! All I was saying was there is no reason to get yourself all worked up. Too late, I guess. You might need that healthcare when you give yourself an aneurysm. I'll stick to boats from now on. I plan to vote with my sails.
Budget Boater said:

Phony? Republican Party? Manufactured? Designed?

Huh? From what planet have you descended?

First you are calling me a Republican, which I am not. Second you say that it is manufactured by a party which does not represent me. Hmmm. Seeing as how it was reported by the most liberal newspaper in the country about the words of our liberal president, how in the world do you get manufactured by Republicans out of that?

It is a FACT that the Military Commissions Act exists.
It is a FACT that the Patriot Act exists.
It is a FACT that these tyrannical Executive Orders exist along with many others (perpetrated by all presidents since Ford, regardless of party affiliation):
EXECUTIVE ORDER 10990
allows the government to take over all modes of transportation and control of highways and seaports.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 10995
allows the government to seize and control the communication media.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 10997
allows the government to take over all electrical power, gas, petroleum, fuels and minerals.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 10998
allows the government to seize all means of transportation, including personal cars, trucks or vehicles of any kind and total control over all highways, seaports, and waterways.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 10999
allows the government to take over all food resources and farms.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11000
allows the government to mobilize civilians into work brigades under government supervision.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11001
allows the government to take over all health, education and welfare functions.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11002
designates the Postmaster General to operate a national registration of all persons.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11003
allows the government to take over all airports and aircraft, including commercial aircraft.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11004
allows the Housing and Finance Authority to relocate communities, build new housing with public funds, designate areas to be abandoned, and establish new locations for populations.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11005
allows the government to take over railroads, inland waterways and public storage facilities.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11051
specifies the responsibility of the Office of Emergency Planning and gives authorization to put all Executive Orders into effect in times of increased international tensions and economic or financial crisis.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 11310
grants authority to the Department of Justice to enforce the plans set out in Executive Orders, to institute industrial support, to establish judicial and legislative liaison, to control all aliens, to operate penal and correctional institutions, and to advise and assist the President.

You see Brian, you have fallen into the trap of actually being divided by the left/right paradigm. They have pulled the wool over your eyes making you believe that there is a substantial difference between liberal and conservative politicians. What they say in public to rally the "vote," is much different from what they do in the end. The fact is, that they seek to keep us divided with ridiculous arguments that in the end will have little to no bearing on our lives, while they plunder and pillage our beloved Constitution and erode the rights of everyone in this nation.

Our legal system has had plenty of opportunity to right the wrongs of our elected officials dating back to July 9, 1868, yet have not. So, if you wish to believe that our legal system will eventually get around to restoring the wrongs made to our rights after 141 years of not doing so, you are truly blinded by the system.

Now to address your other topics. Healthcare: Hmmm, let's see....in a Republic, no one is guaranteed healthcare. They are only guaranteed the rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness (property.) Why should I, or anyone else, be "forced" to pay for a bunch of fat gluttoness slobs, chain smokers, and thrill seekers? We shouldn't under the laws of a Republic. So what do I want out of health care? For the politicians to get the hell out of health care.

Carbon Emissions: Hmmm, another fascinating topic....science has proven that carbon emissions rise after warming of the earth has occurred, not the other way around. So, what do you think that any human can do about Earth's natural cycles? Not one thing. I bet you are one of those people who actually says, "we (humans) are destroying the earth." I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the earth existed long before humans, and it will exist long after we kill ourselves off. Whatever humans do, whatever we create, it will recycle it and there will be no trace that we ever existed 40,000,000 years after we are gone. We are but a gnat on the ass of an elephant.

So what do I write my congressman about? Get out of healtcare. Get out of global warming heresy. Give us our rights and liberty back. We were born with the right to live free, and you seem to be OK with having your rights taken from you by the few. Sad really, considering that when they take your rights, they are taking everyone's rights.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot: Sanding. When you sand epoxy, paint, or other chemical compounds, it releases known dangerous chemicals into the air. Definitely dangerous to humans, not so much to the earth. So by telling me that I should "just go do some more sanding," are you indirectly telling me I should go kill myself? ;)


Brian Gartland said:

This is a phony debate manufactured by the republican party and designed exactly to get people "crazy ass mad" so they'll stop talking about more important things like health care and carbon emissions. Constitutional questions are better handled by the courts than by public indignation. The problem is that the legal system works much slower, as it should, than the 24 hour media cycle. There is really no point in getting yourself worked up about an issue that needs no champion. A more beneficial use of your time would be to write your congressman and tell them what kind of healthcare system you want, or just go do some more sanding. Don't worry, these constitutional questions WILL be answered.

[Ann and Neville Clement]

Open and frank discussion can be helpful to all. But this site is best suited to boats and boat building and politics don't really belong here. If this discussion does continue though, I hope folks will more carefully select wording that is not demeaning or hurtful to others. Ideas can be expressed fully AND with respect for others differing ideas. Ann and Nev

[marc]

As a french guy, I'm sorry to interfere in an internal debate.
Just to say that since Patriot Act I and II, I just avoid to visit US territories.
heu, when sailing in the BVI, in the beat from Jost Van Dyke to Norman Island, I point so bad to winward that I enter in the US virgin island waters with no visa. lol.
An internal debate, I'am not sure. In france it's the same every day or almost we lose a freedom for what is presented a good reason...

[Thom delForge]

Could this be by 'design'? Dumb and dumber is now a virtue. Recently Jason Jones from the 'Daily Show' actually reported from Iran. He did a classic 'Jay Walking' bit asking on the street Iranians questions about the American government, culture and it's history -- nearly every Iranian knew the answers -- contrarily, when he interviewed Americans in New York -- all but one person had no idea of their own government or much about our history. Oh, American Number One -- they seem to know that -- what ever that symbolizes? They also had no idea where Iran was -- or even if it was a country. So, I guess we have certainly missed out on the civics thing. Time to bring it as a required course. Taking a 'Constitution Test' is no good if you don't know the context.

Cheers,

Thom

Thom

Ann and Neville Clement said:

When I was in school, we had a class called "civics" where we studied the constitution, generally learned the legal system, and how American freedoms came to be. It was interesting, but I did not understand how important it was until I learned that "civics" are no longer taught in the schools. So today's young adults and kids do not know about that part of our history or rights.

[Jeff Kittle]

I seriously think its good to talk about or even civilly argue about these things. I think I learn a lot. We should try not to attack eachother, but we should also try not be to be easily offended. Our founding fathers and others died for these freedoms we should at least be willing to talk about them even if it makes us uncomfortable. I'm sure there was a lot of arguing back in 1776.

[Bob Bois]

Read "The Debate on the Constitution" and the Federalist Papers. There was some high quality thinking and hard-hitting discussions going on...