Tiki 21. How big is your asymmetric spinaker

[Éric Bouvéron]

Bonjour,

I wish to put an asymmetric spinnaker on my Tiki 21. Bowsprit it ready, thanks to Gratitude, and I have asked sail makers but... I think that they are very optimistic in the sizes they give.

With the clew block at the back of the boat, they suggest no less than 28sq meters. Did some of you use such a big sail, if yes is it manageable, if not what are the areas you use?

With thanks 

Cheers, 

Éric

[SoLong]

Hello Eric,

the sail you see on my photos has 42m². This is not to big and I can handle it under good conditions one hand.

I use a gennaker roller by Bartels. I use no Bowsprit but a traveller to trim the sail.

Best regards

Gerhard

[Robert Hughes]

Hi Eric,

I'm no expert on chutes, but something does feel wrong in what the sailmakers are saying.  As Gerhard says, you can manually handle a sail that size ok, but I suspect it will overpower your boat in anything but very light winds.

If you compare the fully loaded weights of your Tiki 21 and Gerhard's Tiki 30, yours is about 40% of his.  Taking 40% of the 42 sqm sail suggests 17 sqm for yours.  Comparing empty weights it's more like 15 sqm.

I suspect many sailmakers are not familiar with Tiki's.  Also there's a clue in the document you've attached, with their use of the word "Racing".  Maybe they assume you want the biggest that will fit the mast and boat, and therefore make it go as fast as possible in the lightest wind?

My boat is a Tiki 26.  I don't yet have a chute, but the size they're quoting you is more than my total sail area.

Hopefully someone on here with experience on a Tiki 21 can advise.

All the best

Rob

[SoLong]

Overpower

For sure: A gennaker is a light wind sail. I do not feel to overpower my boat in light winds. 

Racing

Do you know the feeling, that you are in a race if there is another boat nearby on the same course? Under light wind conditions a large gennaker may help. ;)

Dimension

I would buy a standard gennaker again, depending from I and J (see table)

https://shop.gruendl.de/Ausruestung/Segel-Mastzubehoer/Segel-Segelreparatur/GENNAKER-SEGEL.html

If I refer Quantum-Sails https://www.quantumsails.com/en/sails/cruising-sails/downwind-sails

The A3 you are offered is a little bit smaller than a A2 and is it not a racing sail but a cruising sail. So I beleave, that there is nothing wrong with the 28m²

[Roger]

I use three spinnakers on my Tiki 21. An assymetric doyle about 230 square feet (21 sm), a flattish symmetric about 240 sq feet (23 sqm), and a 350 sq ft symmetric for light winds (32.5 sq m). There is no way you can use anything bigger than 350 sq feet as the foot is dragging int he water as is with the standard size mast. It is useful under 10 knots true wind speed for dead downwind or deep angles to around 160 degrees off the wind. The Doyle is good to 15 knots true (although it is often up in 20 knot gusts) and will sail as high as the apparent wind coming from ahead (probably around 70 degrees off the true wind). The 240 sf spinnaker is too small for DDW sailing, and I use it more for reaching when I don't want to wear out my nice doyle. For DDW about 250 sq foot would be good as long as it is cut deep, not flat for reaching.

[Éric Bouvéron]

Hi,

Thank you for your feedback.

I will speak with the sail maker. Once settled, I will show some picture of the result right here.

I wish you all the best winds you may wish,

Thanks again and best regards,

Éric

[Roger]

Another issue is how to measure the size of a spinnaker which is not easy because of the shape. My understanding is that it is measured as if it is a flat triangle between luff, leech and foot. This applies to the sizes I have given for my sails here. Therefore, the size 230 sq foot is for a flat triangle not the actual size including the curved shape of the sail. I find this confusing myself, and it means that comparing sail sizes can be apples and oranges depending on how they have been measured.

[Roger]

PS I see that your message was about assymetric spinnakers. My 230 sq foot doyle is an APS which has a very flat cut. The flat cut allows it to sail closer to the wind (a bit higher than a reach), but it is not good for sailing deep angles. When you try and run deep the sail collapses (though it is good for safety running off in 20 knot gusts). If I had only one assymetric spinnaker it would be a deep cut (more balloon shape) so that it can run deep angles. A very flat spinnaker is too narrow in its range of use. If I could only have one spinnaker at all, it would be a general purpose tri-radial symmetric, which is strong DDW but can still be sheeted in and pulled up onto a reach. Good luck with your choice.

[Éric Bouvéron]

Thank you all.

Finally thecsail will be 25 sqm,and if the mastvstays up I will come back to give you impressionsxans pictures.

Thanks again,

Éric