I am not rich enough to buy cheap things

[alex]

For second time I come up with that quote....and  I love it.But I always fear to buy pricey bad stuff since everything now seems to come from China or companies forgot to keep high quality standards.

Example : Raymarine brand new c90 w / radar package I bought 3 years ago. The unit keeps self rebooting many times a day. On the other hand the less costly hand held GPS from Garmin NEVER failed in the same time lapse.

the other example could be the binoculars: I bought 3 pairs of cheaper (???) stuff, between 100 and 240 us bucks.... all are pure sh.... then i ended up with 18 years old used Steiner's .... they have 30 years warranty!!! they are so great that I can see even at clear nights .

the other example: genset... I bought 3 brand new ones: the 2 fist ones in Home Depot. first was the Husky noisy smelly stuff, but really cheap, about 300 bucks... after just one night of trying it, went back to home depot and changed it for a "green super quiet" Ryobi for aroundish 600 bucks , the exact copy of my actual Honda 2000i... after short time stopped to work due the carbon building on the muffler, spend over 150 bucks just to deliver it twice to the shop (the work itself was under the warranty) ... I decided to buy the honda one  for almost 1000 bucks one after reading a discussion in this website. I sold the Ryobi later in Dominican Republic for 500 bucks, which was a good deal after all.  The Honda works perfect. the only thing i miss from the Ryobi unit are the small transporting wheels, they were great.

I can add some more examples, if the crowd is interested to hear more .....

would be interesting to share some other experiences with this community .... consumer stuff that works and other that you keep your hand's off.

alex

[alex]

PD: I found the Steiner's on E-bay after looking for them for 3 months... the cost was less than 300 bucks including shipment.

[paul anderson]

Alex your argument goes to the nature of quality and what it stands for. I drive an old honda crv. it was built well and everything  still works on it. I payed $ 800.00 for it second hand.

I payed top dollar for west epoxy, because i know it is tried and tested, this gives me confidence. I could have used a cheaper local brand, but my confidence would have been not so high.

This is an interesting subject, keep it going.

[alex]

Charlie you ever had a Steiner in your hands? you will see the difference!! and again... how we use the stuff makes the difference, its not same on the great lakes with fresh water, weekend sailors that almost never see bad weather or blue water cruisers. Most of the problems I found in my boat appeared after the offshore passage against the trades and current from Trinidad to Brazil over almost 2400 NM. pressure spray from any imaginable side and  waves breaking all the time is a good test for the equipment you have on board and how we maintain it. the boat isn't dry enough to stop salt, so the equipment you have on board must resist this.

[laurent]

 Exactly ALEX, for the difference beetwin offshore use or Professional use and week end or lakes uses .

I bough TORQEEDO electric motor 1003 l made in Germany( really) . Looks like a toy when you have it in hands .The tiller is just plastic,It is grey but becomes white :  dont like the sun neither the salt , The shaft articulation is in soft metal, the plugs ( should be pluged every start) are not for big fingers and don' t forget your glasses, the queel is just nothing in thin,thin plastic, already broken before use. You can see the motor on last LARGYALO photo on is dynghie. He said me it is sh...His tiller is already broken . He advices me to sold mine because it is  still new . i bought HONDA 4 strokes , there is no comparaison for marine use .

[alex]

In many countries its forbidden perhaps , but I saw in Brazil anti- bird nets over the entire boat. they are easy to lay out and really cheap. and keep sea gulls out. another trick you can try is to buy a big fake snake , its works too (other than owls). the plastic snake doesn't work after just one week if the sea gulls realize that it doesnt move. 

some other equipment that don't work:

chinese handtools... i bought a new set of stainless tools with lifetime warranty at Sears , they build some rust on it but with a small maintenance wit dw40 keep looking same as new. the chinese ones, even with maintenance keep rusting.

grundig radio.... it was like throwing the money from a bridge. i would love to return it, but i am not in the states anymore.

good choises:

plastic US made sprayer with manual handpump, i use it for almost everything: anchor chain, toilet, deck...as well as a shower. 1 gallon content. bought at Sears and came with the boat, almost 13 years old. works perfect.

Honda 2 HP outboard.... same as the generator, never give up. the only problem is that the carburetor tank cap rust quiet often, so need to be replaced regularly (or better maintained)

Livingston dinghy.... great investment. came with the boat...

Icom handheld VHF... no comments needed.

Aluminum LPG gas tanks. expensive though.(about 150 bucks each) came with the boat. 

about the Steiners.... I cannot afford to buy new ones, so I went used at almost same price as chinese  7x50 news ones.

Paul: you right about  the nature of quality and what it stands for. I drive an old 1995 chevy (made by susuki) . works perfect but I didn't try it on marine environment yet, hahaha

[Andy Best-Dunkley]

Hi - great topic of conversation! I totally agree with the philosophy to buy good quality second-hand than new cheap n cheerful - but of course it depends on lots of individual factors. It's also totally true that equipment that is fine for coastal use won't be any use offshore.

I use West Epoxy for all repairs to hulls or deck, for which strength and reliability are essential. I use cheaper local epoxy for cabin furniture etc, where failure is not life-threatening! (Though so far no problems)

Best quality product that I have is a Walker Bay 8 dinghy - bought for about 300€ unused. They are great dinghys, very light yet tough and quite ok for rowing or motoring (though I'd prefer a 10 footer for actual use, but the 8 is so light and stows nicely on deck).

As so much "quality" stuff is actually made in China or other developing countries, the brand or price is no guarrantee of quality or longlastingness. I have a mainsail from Far East Sails in Hong Kong and a yankee from Jeckells (UK) - both are similar in quality, and I have no complaints of the main, it is exactly what I ordered. With electronics the main problem is that products are developing so quickly that it is difficult to know what is a good, proven model. For example I have been looking at getting a Garmin chartplotter but it seems the one I had my eye on has been superseeded already...! Just as with PCs, quality and speed should increase as prices drop - though somehow that doesn't seem to happen with marine products!

[Galway Bay]

If only expensive was always good and cheap always bad we would know what to do ! It's the inconsistency that keeps the debate alive. I bought a really cheap 800 watt generator in a chain store for e67. I was doing one last frantic week of work ahead of my launch day which I had no intention of postponing. By the time I had launched and fitted-out it owed me nothing. A year and a half later I dug it out of the back of the shed. The fuel tap was leaking. I contacted the shop for a replacement tap. I was told they do not repair them and given my money back. Back home I fitted an old tap from a lawnmower ! Perhaps who you buy from is more important than whose brand it is ?

[alex]

Thats correct, WHERE is as important as WHAT brand you buy. Example: West Marine has a policy to match any offer from a US webpage and known retailer. If you go directly you will get the catalog prices which are always over the market average. What i do is make a research about the item I am going to buy, print the webpage and then show up at West Marine. Its great!! I get the item delivered for free to their branch , I get West Marine warranty and excellent customer service. But with the best prices that I can get online. A gallon of Owlgrip paint was online at $75 (probably due a mistake on the web) and same gallon Paint at West Marines was over $200, cannot remember the exact price. They were wondering about the crazy price and told me they could not match the price but they could give me a good discount, so i bought by $110 a gallon. I took that offer because i was sure that Defender would find out that this price was wrong...

Earlier in time I was always ignoring West Marine because they were expensive, but the fact that they have a first class international (expensive) service and they have many locations in the US and Canada, beside that their policy is to match the prices of competitors, I changed my way to see things regarding that company. I felt that I was beating them with their own rules...

Since I was purchasing stuff to upgrade the boat in Miami, I have a large list of material and service providers that i could give to anyone who is interested ... I can mention some though: SHELL LUMBER , has the most incredible assortment of lumber, moldings and stainless steel hardware... Home Depot for the hand tools and some materials (and excellent service), west marine, River marine (will sell without taxes if you show your foreign passport) , Solar panels (we bought 2 x 210 w for $0,80/watt, no one in the states could beat that)  . Walmart for some other stuff, like the Milar survival blankets we used to make the vapor barrier for the fridge, just  for 1 dollar each, the online providers are many but I would mention Defender as the main one... per request they do will match prices and they don't charge taxes as well, but shipping is pricey. I am very upset with Best Buy since they will not honor warranty if you are out of the states... they sold me a toshiba laptop with written WORLD warranty, but either Toshiba nor Best buy were willing to cover warranty when the laptop stopped to work just after 2 weeks. I could write a full article with that experience.

Most of the above mentioned providers were at a walking distance from Dinner Key Marina, in Coconut grove/ Miami.