Thinkng of making a big mistake...opinions solicited.

[clif high]

I am thinking of buying an old mark 1 tangaroa. It would then have to be restored, and refurbished, and then refitted for my needs. It is not as large as i would have wanted, but is available, and (yet sight unseen) is solid enough (built 1979) to be a suitable foundation for a new vessel. (may get to have a look later this week or next).

What kind of drugs can i take to NOT do this?  What do i need to know to shake out of my delusion?

I would have to take the boat down some of the most trafficed waters in Puget Sound (Ballard down east passage past seattle to olympia...some 65 kmiles). then do most of the work on the water at local marina (pain in the butt as i would need to commute to it.

So, what size outboard would be necessary to drive the boat at 6kts? Any ideas?

Can you put a pilot house on a tangaroa without seriously damaging capacity? Any plans for these available? What about new drawings for mods for them to 'upgrade' the design?

I am going to go crab claw rig on any wharram i end up with...any body ever done a crab claw conversion to a tangaroa? pictures available?

Can a tangarora be lifted out (straps, marina based rolling crane, that sort of thing)?

Thanks. Still really looking for reasons to NOT get into yet another building project. Rather would just like to get on with the work of sailing, and using the boat for our biz purpose that originally put me onto the wharrams as a class of boat, but there are not a whole lot of available Wharrams up here in the great NW.

Help...please, let us rack up the reasons to not do this....

[Bill Ludeman]

Charlie said:

A 15 hp outboard will be too small. They're only about 250cc arent they? Doesn't seem like much.... I would think at least 40 hp would be required in any sort of weather or tide.

Wow !!   I have a single 9.9 Yamaha four stroke on my Tangaroa MKI  Pushes her 5 to as high as 9 mph - Not sure what use a forty would be.   If I was able to switch and try I might try a twenty but no bigger.   Several people I know have suggested that even smaller would do the job.... 

Look at the weight of a forty before you even consider this.   

[clif high]

guys, just to let you know i am about 2/3rds through a proa build. i obtained a madness kit from clc that  i have modified the hell out  of to support my old man bones and a crab claw rig.  Still have a tiki 21 in need of a new home, though some proa fans are thinking of taking  it off my hands and glueing the two hulls together at the stern to make a long proa hull. ALso have a hitia 17 in real good shape. Both are cheap. Both are in Olympia WA State. Send any emails about these to moon at halfpasthuman.com

thanks for the replies.

[andy solywoda]

Ahoy Clif,

     I am very interested in your proa project.  The CLC shop is only about a half hour away from here and I've seen his earlier proa and the beautiful wood kayaks on display there.  If you could post pix of your build, I am sure many here would appreciate them.  How difficult is the build so far?  What modifications are you making?  I think JW experimented with a proa design some time ago but there is little info on that one.

[clif high]

i have a madness clone. my object was to install my advanced crab claw rig. i have modified by not using the clc rudder design, and  interior layout (vaka), and interior layout (ama). In the ama, instead of water ballast, i went for storage in water tight sections. And i am not using his foil through the ama approach. Instead i have a bruce style foil made of glass over spyder foam that will be mounted outboard of the ama. ALso i am going for a much simplified beam design without all the strip build. That is also  true of  his pod. Instead i have a full standing headroom pilothouse/habitat of  some 64 square feet although head room only is in middle section that is 2 foot wide. As i am using an electric motor (the torqueedo 2 off my umiak) i have a battery box way outboard on my solid deck (not using tramps). The deck is actually a tensegrity grid made of wood with 1/3 of the surface as holes, yet my dogs will walk on it fine, and i can live on the deck wharram style.

The house is more of a pilot house first, and habitat second as  you can sleep on either side of the central head room walkway, but it is really intended for having a grid floor down when at anchor to make a 5 foot  high cabin for floor living, again, wharram style.

i solved the rudder issue with my rig in that  the advanced crab claw shifts my 'high rudder' such that the redundant rudder forward is lifted clear on the shunt.

my high rudder design is beam mounted so i am not using the clc madness rudder as centerboard in each bow approach that comes from 1967. Instead i took some hints from rob denny of harryproa fame, and devised a new form of rudder for proa's.

no pictures yet as the thing is just hulls. THe ama is complete absent paint. The beams are 2/3rds done, and hopefully will be finished this week, again absent paint. And planning to  roll the hull by next sat for  bottom work. So things are proceeding...

good resin weather here. early morning batches and then wood work/sanding rest of day. Fun times if you like to build canoes.

my rig is using a crane/sprit rig with a 25 foot carbon fiber crane, and a crab with 30 foot yard/boom also of carbon. Sewing sail myself.

The screwy part of this is that proa's are scalable. So after i perfect sailing this boat , i will build a 50 foot vaka with much more accommodation and use this vaka as the ama on that boat.

the reason i had to go to such mods on the build stems from the clc approach of strip building both pod and beams. Not for my old hands, so once i started that level of mods, i decided to save my poor old back his kayak'y cockpit approach and build something more suited both to older primate butt and the salish sea where i sail.

We have 1100 miles of sheltered waters, plus the 700 miles circumnavigation of vancouver island, with beautiful fijords, and incredible wildlife...but it is also cold and frequently rainy. So i needed pilot house where i can have a small diesel stove and a pot of tea while still making way. i think i have come up with an adequate solution given the 31 foot with which i have to work.

planning on taking pictures when it is out of shed, in the sun for the rigging phase of things. something to see then as well.

[andy solywoda]

Wow, thanks for all that info.  Are you building from his kit or from plans?  I think the crab claw is a good rig for a proa.

[WaveDancer & Bella]

Here is my idea for a cruising Proa. (don't take it serious - OK?)

 

[clif high]

building from the kit. Many parts i am not using, but a good approach for this as many unknowns initially as well. Math's all finished now, so will be easier to do the next one. Crab claw is kick ass for shunting...none better. And very few times you ever need reef as it spills excess  winds.

andy solywoda said:

Wow, thanks for all that info.  Are you building from his kit or from plans?  I think the crab claw is a good rig for a proa.

[andy solywoda]

Mahalo Clif,

     Have you checked out http://joeyschott.blogspot.com/  he works in the shop.  Not crab claw, are they. 

I guess the jigsaw pieces go together just fine, but the mods take a little bit of "chair" work and take longer.  I think your proa and Boatsmith's Ariki are the two projects that I can't wait to see.

[Scott Dierikx]

Hi guys. If you're into pros, have you seen Gary Dieriking's designs? He lives in NZ and has put together a great book that details three outrigger canoes/proas (I'm sloooooooowly building the Ulua design). He seems to have his stuff pretty sorted. 

[clif high]

yes i have seen his book. these are tackers though, correct? not shunters?

[Scott Dierikx]

Hey Clif. One of the designs is a pure proa, another can be rigged as either, and the last one is a pure tacking rig (the Ulua). 

[clif high]

gotcha....have my head up the pacific proa as cruiser, i just glanced at his boats. i already have a 25 foot umiak tri that i used for the crab claw tests that had been rigged as a proa for a while. Now, as old fart, i need some creature comforts such as a pilothouse for the miserable rains but good winds that we get in the salish sea.

the did look to be quick builds.

so far i have been working about half time 5 days a week (am care provider so time is not my own) on my proa. About one half done with the hulls and beams. Then i figure a month to craft and build  the crane/rudders support structure and sew the sail. Sometime in there i will work out a jig and cut my decking and resin that grid work up.

lots of work. And am planning the 50 foot build. That will done with a machine i am working on that will vacuum press out asymmetric proa hull sections. It is adjustable. This machine will eliminate the  need for long tables. Only require long spaces for assembly. Will be working this machine/build after October when the real weather sets in around here.

in the mean time back to sanding..