Paint suggestions

[Steve Burrage]

Hi everyone, Steve here from Vancouver, BC. Got a 30 + year old repaired Tiki 21 last year from a guy in Port Townsend. It has a Hobie 16 rotating mast and sails. Sailed it last summer and it worked pretty well, though I think I need a bigger headsail for these light PNW summer winds...but that's another post... My question is about paint. I have partially stripped (back to bare wood in some spots) my beams and want to repaint them. Does anyone have any suggestions for the best paint? The marine epoxies are really pricey, but maybe they're worth it? Does it matter if the paint that's left on the beams is oil? I don't actually know if it is or isn't. Many thanks!

[agur paesüld]

Hello Steve,

There are couple of discussions about paint here in wharrambuilders forum already... try to google them out.

But what I can suggest from my own experience is Tikkurila Temadur 20, it is extra strong, sets quickly and its much cheaper than "conventional marine paints". Temadur is 2-component polyurethane paint and is meant mainly for industrial use, for example for the paint of steel structures. Its a bit tricky paint to use, as it hardens really quick, but after some experimenting Im sure you find the knack. Important is to find the right brush or roller. Ofcourse it would be much more fun to use paint-gun if one has it...

PS! How are you pleased with hobie 16 rig, you already mentioned the sail area, but how about beating against wind, tacking etc. Is the main sheet attached in single place or do you have some kind of traveler on the rear beam?

good luck

[Robert Hughes]

Hi Steve,

I've had that problem when renovating old boats, it's a tricky one.  If the old paint was fairly easy to rub down the chances are it was oil based.  Two pack polyurethanes have been around a long time now and give a very durable long lasting finish, but you'd have noticed it was a very hard surface.  Last year I saw a boat I built thirty years ago, and the yellow stripe I'd painted in two pack poly was still solid, if a bit faded.  I think epoxies from that far back were mainly used as primers or undercoats, or below the waterline, because they were not very UV resistant.  If you use a two pack poly on top of oil paint it will most likely act like paint stripper and you'll get a real mess.  That can happen even if there's only a little old primer in the grain.

Epoxies vary in the way they interact with traditional paint, but I think generally they're not recommended.  I did try a water based epoxy barrier paint on top of old oil based, then finished with two pack poly on top of that, but after a couple of years in the weather it's lifting in places.

I would suggest using one of the modern premium single pack polyurethanes, I think they are called something like "linear polyurethane".  Toplac from International was one, expensive but very easy to apply and gives a good finish.  Other brands might be cheaper.  I used it for my topsides a few years back and it's lasting well, better than enamel or ordinary poly would have done.

Whatever you use, make sure you stay on top of the maintenance, especially with the more water resistant paints like epoxies.  Once water does get behind them it can't get out...

All the best

Rob

[Steve Burrage]

Thanks so much for the info. I'll check out the Temadur. The Hobie 16 seemed to work alright last summer. I had to jimmy rig the mast step hinge after I realized that the one available from Hobie only fit on the proper mast base, which itself only fit on a curved beam (that wouldn't work on my I-beam!). anyways, the rotating mast is cool, and though 26 1/2 feet tall, has less sail area than the regular Tiki sail plan. what's kinda nice is that Hobie sell all sorts of things, like blocks, cleats, vangs, etc... plus I think the bits and pieces (boom, sails, battens, etc... ) are all pretty available. I'll try it on a longer trip this coming summer, with the spinnaker and maybe the added gen or code 0, if I can pick one up pretty cheap, but I'll need to add a bowsprit for those latter sails.  Lots of fun to experiment and nice that the boat and rigging don't set a person back too far.

agur paesüld said:

Hello Steve,

There are couple of discussions about paint here in wharrambuilders forum already... try to google them out.

But what I can suggest from my own experience is Tikkurila Temadur 20, it is extra strong, sets quickly and its much cheaper than "conventional marine paints". Temadur is 2-component polyurethane paint and is meant mainly for industrial use, for example for the paint of steel structures. Its a bit tricky paint to use, as it hardens really quick, but after some experimenting Im sure you find the knack. Important is to find the right brush or roller. Ofcourse it would be much more fun to use paint-gun if one has it...

PS! How are you pleased with hobie 16 rig, you already mentioned the sail area, but how about beating against wind, tacking etc. Is the main sheet attached in single place or do you have some kind of traveler on the rear beam?

good luck

[Steve Burrage]

Great, thanks, Rob. Looks like it might be helpful for me to find out if the previous paint was in fact an oil. 

appreciate it,

Steve

Robert Hughes said:

Hi Steve,

I've had that problem when renovating old boats, it's a tricky one.  If the old paint was fairly easy to rub down the chances are it was oil based.  Two pack polyurethanes have been around a long time now and give a very durable long lasting finish, but you'd have noticed it was a very hard surface.  Last year I saw a boat I built thirty years ago, and the yellow stripe I'd painted in two pack poly was still solid, if a bit faded.  I think epoxies from that far back were mainly used as primers or undercoats, or below the waterline, because they were not very UV resistant.  If you use a two pack poly on top of oil paint it will most likely act like paint stripper and you'll get a real mess.  That can happen even if there's only a little old primer in the grain.

Epoxies vary in the way they interact with traditional paint, but I think generally they're not recommended.  I did try a water based epoxy barrier paint on top of old oil based, then finished with two pack poly on top of that, but after a couple of years in the weather it's lifting in places.

I would suggest using one of the modern premium single pack polyurethanes, I think they are called something like "linear polyurethane".  Toplac from International was one, expensive but very easy to apply and gives a good finish.  Other brands might be cheaper.  I used it for my topsides a few years back and it's lasting well, better than enamel or ordinary poly would have done.

Whatever you use, make sure you stay on top of the maintenance, especially with the more water resistant paints like epoxies.  Once water does get behind them it can't get out...

All the best

Rob

[Steve Burrage]

Sorry, Agur, I realize I didn't answer your question about the main sheet. At first, it was just a single sheet down to a cleat aft of the motor on the rear beam, but then I wanted to ensure that the boom didn't raise, say on a beam reach, so I added a rope between the very back of each hull, with another rope through pulleys to move the main sheet from port to starboard or somewhere inbetween. It worked pretty well, but there was a lot of friction which made it difficult to move once the sail filled. I'm thinking of using two lines, one from each hull so I can tension one and release the other as I tack.  Hope that makes sense.

Steve Burrage said:

Thanks so much for the info. I'll check out the Temadur. The Hobie 16 seemed to work alright last summer. I had to jimmy rig the mast step hinge after I realized that the one available from Hobie only fit on the proper mast base, which itself only fit on a curved beam (that wouldn't work on my I-beam!). anyways, the rotating mast is cool, and though 26 1/2 feet tall, has less sail area than the regular Tiki sail plan. what's kinda nice is that Hobie sell all sorts of things, like blocks, cleats, vangs, etc... plus I think the bits and pieces (boom, sails, battens, etc... ) are all pretty available. I'll try it on a longer trip this coming summer, with the spinnaker and maybe the added gen or code 0, if I can pick one up pretty cheap, but I'll need to add a bowsprit for those latter sails.  Lots of fun to experiment and nice that the boat and rigging don't set a person back too far.

agur paesüld said:

Hello Steve,

There are couple of discussions about paint here in wharrambuilders forum already... try to google them out.

But what I can suggest from my own experience is Tikkurila Temadur 20, it is extra strong, sets quickly and its much cheaper than "conventional marine paints". Temadur is 2-component polyurethane paint and is meant mainly for industrial use, for example for the paint of steel structures. Its a bit tricky paint to use, as it hardens really quick, but after some experimenting Im sure you find the knack. Important is to find the right brush or roller. Ofcourse it would be much more fun to use paint-gun if one has it...

PS! How are you pleased with hobie 16 rig, you already mentioned the sail area, but how about beating against wind, tacking etc. Is the main sheet attached in single place or do you have some kind of traveler on the rear beam?

good luck

[Éric Bouvéron]

Hi, on my boat (launched last week), I used a two composants foor paint. Result is ok, not shiny and more working boat than yacht, buf serms to be very strong.