Tiki mod?

[Jerry]

Hi, I am very interest in the tiki 38 or 46. I like what boatsmith did with the Ariki deck. Would it be possible to remove the deck pod and have a large roof like this? Is is practical on a tiki? What problems do you see?

Also, I would like to raise to cabin roofs about 6 inches by building storage on top. Would this idea work?

Would these ideas get in the way of handling during sail or docking?

[Brett Parker]

Hi There

Just wondering the reason for wanting to remove the pod?

I have a t 38 and find the pod to be fantastic. Gets you out of the wind, keeps you dry, and its a great sheltered space to talk.

My pod has clears all round and this is a real asset. Interested to hear your reasons for change .

regards Brett

[Jerry]

I really need to see one in person to get a feel for them. Any Tiki's in Alaska? What are the pod dimensions?

I like the open layout boatsmith did on the ariki. When the weather is bad, it would be easy to drop soft sides from the roof and be able to walk from hull to hull dry. This part is important to the admiral. The large hard top also increases usable area without adding much weight. Shade and protection below, while above good for sunning, diving, looking for pirates, etc.

[Brett Parker]

2400 x2400 approx. When offshore, you spend all your time in the pod because it is noisy and more uncomfortable in the hulls. So you kind of live up top. I have seen a t 46 with a galley in it and a table that folded into a bed. Pluses and minuses for which ever way you go.

[Jerry]

So....do ye think boatsmiths deck plan woud work on a tiki?

[Brett Parker]

OOps that was a galley (in the pod). Most people set up their boats for where they do the majority of their sailing. So that has to guide you largley. In heavier conditions a pod will offer more protection and i like the bed in the pod but at a certain point, in heavy conditions you want the clear curtains out of the way because they can't stand up to green water. Yes I think it would work on a Tiki

[Budget Boater]

Technically, you can do anything that you want. You could exchange the designed pod out for a wide cockpit with a hard top similar to Bazinga.

On the Tiki 46, your primary consideration with such a modification is the location of the main hatches in the hulls. These align in front of the aft mast. That would mean that a mast would be protruding through your hard top and into your cockpit, and you would be required to engineer a mast case that would also be inside your cockpit.

The current Tiki 46 design incorporates the pod and cockpit across three beams. To have a cockpit similarly large to that of Bazinga, you would be required to transition beam 3 with your cockpit, which I think would be undesirable. Bazinga's cockpit works because of the space between the beams in the central area of the boat on the classic designs, and the absence of an extra mast beam. Boatsmith was also able to keep the large cockpit by installing a fractional sloop rig.

Dog is installing a wide cockpit/hardtop on their Tiki 38. This is allowed because of the location of the main hatches in the hulls and the locations of the masts facilitates such a modification. I am doing the same thing on our Narai MKIV.

To accomplish what you want and not be required to re-engineer too much, either step down to a Tiki 38, or move over to the Classic designs (Tangaroa, Narai, Tehini, Ariki) to get the open cockpit/hardtop concept. I understand and agree with your desire to move from hull to hull under cover.

Storage on top of the cabin tops? Why? I don't think they would interfere, but might be unsightly.

[Marty Peters]

As BB says, anything is possible and if you can dream it you can build it. I raised the pod height on my tiki 46 and put the galley up. It works great but isn't everyone's preference. I also has to slightly re engineer the mast case on the mainmast as I dropped the floor 200mm to stop the pod roof being too high, and I've yet to experience any wave slamming by doing so. Just be aware that the biggest challenge in changing and customising is the nock on effects. Because you change or relocate part A now part B doesn't work as designed and part C now needs modification before part D will work as designed. You bead to really really think things through.
Wakatitaia raised the cabin roof on each hull by around 400-500mm and this created a really nice spacious feeling inside. I think your idea of raising the cabin tops for storage sounds a bit strange because by raising the decks you could have a wider living space and then raise the floors and create the storage underfoot, a win win.
I used to skipper a kelsal 52 in koh samui called kiaora, it was a day charter cat and had a open bridge deck concept with well fitting clears that snapped in during inclement weather that I think would really suit a wharram. I considered building something similar while renovating my 46 but I chickened out. Having now lived onboard for a while and thought about it extensively for exactly the same reasons of keeping the boss happy, I think it would work really well. If you look on www.kiaorathailand.com it will give you a good idea of what I mean. Don't be intimidated by the thought of the hulls flexing and thinking therefore it wouldn't work, as in reality we are taking mm, not inches. I would build the sides of the "pod" directly on top of the hulls, outboard of the hatches down the centreline between beam 2 and 4 and then build a hinged roof. I'd have glass windows on the sides with roll down clears at the front. It would basically be like bazinga but with hard sides rather than a stainless gantry holding up the roof if that makes sense..Look at the gunboat 55 for inspiration.
I don't think the issue of beam 3 or the location of the main mast case should affect anything. You can just design seating etc, or the issue of having the mast come through the roof into the cockpit is an issue. Look at all the big day charter cats for inspiration.
Just remember most boats spend 80-90% of the time at anchor so think flexispace, you can have a nice space for living while at anchor and then when undertaking a big passage you clear the "pod " and transition to sailing mode.

Hope this all makes sense, I feel I'm rambling on and I'm writing this on an iphone so it's a bit clunky. It's very clear in my mind but then it can be hard to articulate..
Keep dreaming and scheming..
Marty

[Olivier R.]

Ou comme cela?

[Jerry]

Yes!  Thanks for the Gunboat 55 link.  That is nearly what I had in mind.  Especially the kitchen up.  See how the stove is on top of the cabin?  I like the idea of keeping all of the propane between hulls. 

I want to raise the cabins so that the toddler won't jump off the sides quite so easy and maybe provide a little more weather protection.  Building and blending storage on top would be easier than cutting off the roof and raising it.  Storage for little things like spare rope, canned food, books, snorkels, screwdriver, that lost sock, etc...

[Jerry]

How would one install glass sides on a hulls that flex?  Plastic windows, but they will be scratched very quickly.   Perhaps a flexible gap between the windows and hulls?  But, that wouldn't account for any twist...

[Budget Boater]

The hulls do not flex. The hulls can "rock" in relationship to the crossbeams.

There are solutions: Monocoque - glass and bolt the beams into the hulls to eliminate the potential for rocking. If you build bridge deck sides with windows in them, you would gap the windows in the space and fill with a flexible sealant. Also, the closer your bridge deck sides align with the centerline of the hulls, the less the "rocking" will have any effect on your sides.

The bigger issue with a solid bridge deck top/sides on a non-monocoque catamaran is the effect of the front/aft of the bridge deck walls as they interacts with the sides walls of the bridge deck when/if the hulls rock in a seaway.

[Marty Peters]

If you get the lashings tight enough the flex is so minimal. I can place my fingers on the beams and hull while sailing in rough 2-3 m seas while it's blowing 25-30kts and the movement between the beam and hull is less than 1-2 mm. BB describes it well, the sides wouldn't be an issue but to have a solid front or back is the engineering challenge, that's why I would have clears at the front and an open back. The roof would hinge at the join between the top of the sides and the roof joint.

Ref cabin top storage and kid safety. There is acres of space for rope / fender storage etc. Just in the forward starboard cabin I have two mountain bikes, a bike kid seat, 2 22kg gas bottles, a huge parachute anchor, 200m of rode, 12 large fenders and 4 boxes of stuff that I can't even remember whats inside. My workshop in the port fwd cabin is full of tools, spare lines, blocks , epoxy glass etc. under each bed is around 2 sq meters of storage. To keep my kids (15months and 7 years) on deck I put a 60cm high pushpit and pullpit on the bow and at beam 5 with netting and stanchions down each side. I recently added 1 m sunbrella bags on the push pits for storing a pram, snorkelling gear, fishing gear and mooring lines and 2 emergency fenders...

I think your best way forward is to try to visit and see in person a tiki 46 or 38 to really get a reference on how big these boats are. Keep in mind that a tiki 46 is about 3 times bigger than a tiki 30 and about twice as big as a 38. The numbers don't do the actual size difference justice. A 46 is a much much bigger boat than a 38. I had 30 before the 46 and the size difference is astounding..

Actually, why don't you get down to see ann and nevs tiki 46. At the new price of 110,000 usd it's a bargain as I can guarantee you you couldn't build one for anywhere near that price, and that's not taking into account the extras like solar, autopilot, halyards, mattresses etc etc etc etc.You could buy their boat, take off the pod, spend 50k building a new pod /roof/ bridge deck and get exactly what you want and you'll save yourself 3-10 years building time and a whole bunch of money. If I was thinking of a 46 I would jump all over peace IV because I can tell you it's impossible to build for anywhere near what they are asking. Just this season I spent another 10k on bits and pieces and I still have loads to do and spend before the boat is "finished"! When renovating Spiral Tribe I spent a fortune on consumables.
I would guess-timate I spent more than 10k alone on Gloves, sandpaper, thinners, acetone, mixing pots, mixing sticks( tongue depressors) respirator filters, tyvec suits, cutting disks etc etc etc I bought a makita orbi sander that was over 500usd (best tool
I have ever bought!) and I went through 8, yes 8 cheap (80usd each) black and decker ( crap and crapper) sanders, 2 mains power drills and 3 cheap battery drills, and 2 makita grinders and a makita jigsaw.
It was always a dream to build a boat but at times , especially once I realised the enormity of the task at hand, it felt more like a nightmare. Looking back I learned loads especially in the what not to do department. And I actually enjoyed building / modifying but please keep in mind it is hard damn work. I personally know two other 46 builders in South Africa where I did my renovation and they took 10 years and 12 years respectively to build their 46's...

I'm rambling again... Lol...
Take care and keep dreaming... Cos dreams do come true!

Marty