Tiki 30 vs Tiki 31

[Jairo aguilar]

My name is Jairo Aguilar, Im from Colombia and I'm new in this world

Many years ago and have been a daysailor,  recently met up with an article on the designs of Wharram and found many things and I am very well impressed

But between my doubts and ignorance, some preliminary questions arise about which I would like to hear your opinion

1. General  comparisons between tiki30 and tiki31 

2. I've Found articles about  soft wing systems and looks very promising, What do you think about that for  tiki30

http://www.advancedwingsystems.com/

3. is possible to install a daggerboard to a  tiki 30 to improve upwind performance?

Again thank for your time and I would greatly appreciate any information about the world TIKI

Jairo

[Jose Alberto Garibaldi]

Hola Jairo!  

Greetings and welcome. I have not sailed a tiki30, but do have a tiki31. The 31 is fast and a very good sailing boat; it has 4 (smallish) cabins, so it offers a bit of independence for 4 people.  The cockpits are very comfortable, but it improve a lot if you cover them with an awning or so, per the plans. It would make a marvellous boat in warm weather; in England where I live, they are too cold for winter or early spring sailing. The wingsail works very well, is very efficient, and easily reefed. The simpler with sails, the better. Haven´t tried daggerboards really, but they do go to windward, but you can get to 55 degrees to windward with the v hulls as they are, and improve it with good sailing (am still learning!). The decks give an impression of (an provide) loads and loads of space. 

I gather a lot depends o what you want to use it for. Am not sure if there are Wharrams in Colombia, but they might be great there.  Building a boat, however, is a lot of work. I made mine by refitting and rebuilding existing hulls (only the hulls remain of the original boat, everything else is new) and it took almost 3 years (on and off) to put in that situation.Best might be to refit an existing one, or start from the smallest boat you might get away with from what you actually want to do most of the time. 

Best of luck, and best wishes, 

[Robert Hughes]

1.  Other members will be better able to answer this one.

2.  The normal Wharram designed soft wing sail with the small gaff works well and is not too expensive.  It is easy to handle.  Also there are companies around with plenty of experience of building these sails, such as Jeckells in England and Rolly Tasker in Thailand.  The correct size etc for the Tiki 30 is well established.  If you want to change to a novel high tech design ask yourself how much it is going to benefit you, balanced against what problems you might get.  I would strongly suggest staying with the Wharram design.

3.  There is absolutely no need for a daggerboard on a Tiki 30.  The sharp V of the hulls grips the water extremely well, and going to windward they will cover the ground as quickly as a monohull, as long as you know how to sail them properly.  Adding a daggerboard will just increase drag and slow you down.  If you look through the archives on this site you'll find loads of discussions about this, mainly started by people with only monohull experience who've heard the myth that "cats don't sail well to windward".  In my experience there's no truth in it, at least on the ones I've sailed.

Good luck with your investigation!  I hope one day you become an owner!

[Robert Sheridan]

I believe that the tiki 31 is more heavily built than the Tiki 30, other than that the main difference would be the sail plan and cabin layouts.  We have a Tiki 30 with a pod and have been happy doing extended cruises on her.  There have been similar questions in the past and there was a view that the the advantage of the lighter build of the Tiki 30 is the increased payload. 

I would endorse Robert Hughes' points about the wing sail and dagger boards.

[Jose Alberto Garibaldi]

Jairo, de nuez, 

I just reread my post and it is not as carefully written as it should, and could be interpreted as I was recommending daggerboards. In fact, I am of the same opinion as both Robert Hughes and Robert Sheridan - daggerboards are more a nuisance than an advantage, and just as the Tiki´s stand with V hulls, they sail very well. The Tiki´s are cleverly designed boats - if you start tampering somewhere, you end up with changes in cascade, and am not necessarily sure where you will end up. It might be much better to leave things as they are, and decide between designs, rather than modify them. 

Would also endorse the views on the wingsail. Having never sailed a schooner before, it is a slightly more complex bit of strings, and a bit on the tiresome side to sail alone, but I love the arrangement.  With some wind, it goes very fast, and the TIKI 31 tends to go very well to windward by using the mizzen, while offering multiple combinations: it will sail with jib and/or main alone, or jib and mizzen, etc. Will see if I can upload a video of it sailing abeam. The sturdier built means they will take the sea much better than you can withstand it if upwind. Two people can sail alone for very long distances and time; 5 over a week/weekend, or for a day sail, you can bring 8 people, and would not necessarily notice if you distribute them around the cabins, while still having loads of deck space, and spaces to be alone, sitting here and there. But as others have said, there is a long discussion on this. The core I believe is what you want to use the boat for. Best,

José A.

[Jairo aguilar]

Exultation is the going
Of an inland soul to sea, --
Past the houses, past the headlands,
Into deep eternity!

Bred as we, among the mountains,
Can the sailor understand
The divine intoxication
Of the first league out from land?

Emiliy Dickinson 

Thank you very much for your opinions and I can see that I have a long way.
I'll be very aware about the experiences you want to share

Jairo

[Rogerio Martin]

Jairo, I have one tiki 30 and a few months ago stoped beside me one tiki 31. And we can comparate:

The size is almost the same. But the tiki 30 has a roomier cockpit. And their cabins are larger. The tiki 31 has 4 separate cabins. With two masts and four beams, the cockpit is full. The Tiki 30 is a more modern design. The TikiRio (my tiki 30) has the bow cabin open to the main cabin and it gives a sense of size. Neither should be higher, but looking lying on any bed u have a larger horizon.

cockpit do tiki 31

cockpit do tiki 30

tiki 31, tiki 30 and tiki 26

The wing sail is more cheap and eficiency mast, the best in coust / benefit

Tiki 30 below 10knts winds is too slow in upwind, between 15knts / 20 knts I do 45º upwind with 7 knts / 8 knts boat speed. I miss one genoa in ligth winds.

Daggerboard always improve upwind performance, but she comes with more work to build, roubed inside space, and too more carefull with shallows waters. You can do one rudder, skeg and keel bigger (10 ou 15 cm more) but is more material and more work..

TikiRio está disponivel para charter na Baia da Ilha Grande, a 150km do Rio de Janeiro, seja bem vindo.

Rogerio Martin

[Tam Dl]

"3. is possible to install a daggerboard to a  tiki 30 to improve upwind performance?"

The Tiki 30 is the first Tiki, or Wharram, that I am aware of that that uses a projecting aero shaped keel, though other types are used on some other boats.  If you asked the question about daggerboard vs V hull to most enthusiasts, you would hear that the Tiki style can do very well as is.  Then along comes the Tike 30 and it in addition has a stub aero keel.  So presumably that is there to improve something that prior to that would not have been improvable in the minds of many.  When I got the design, I was troubled by this "contradiction" so I wrote head office.  I didn't really get much of an answer, but I suppose I came away from it thinking that they had improved something and were comited to it.  It still seems to me that there could be advantages to the older design with the smooth run of keel.  Either with nothing else to produce lift from leeway; or with a built in daggerboard in one hull that would only be used as required; or a leeboard; or a centrally mounted daggerboard, between the hulls; or end plates. 

I think if I had the Tiki 31 type boat a daggerboard in the center cockpit would be a no-brainer.  But I haven't seen even the plans for a 31 so that could change.  Another option is to build in the daggerboard case so that if you want to go that direction you can do it with minimal difficulty as a retro,  Build it fully in then cover over the slot.

As far as the Tiki 30 vs Tiki 31 are concerned, they aren't just variations of the same thing in a range.  The 31 was specifically designed for a commercial application, as is no secret, so if it works as a design it is in that service, as well as looking at it as a variant of the Tiki range.