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Tom Vogt
  • Male
  • Fort Mill, SC
  • United States
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Profile Information

I am:
A home builder
What boat (s) are you building or do you own?
Tiki 38
Country, City, and State?
USA Ft Mill SC
About me or us?
Regular guy. My family (me wife and 3 kids) are moving back to Mexico in a few years and I plan on having a small daycharter/ snorkel business for tourists in the Cancun, Playa del Carmen and Tulum areas.
Looking to?
Start building Tiki 38 Hull#143

Tom Vogt's Blog

New Tiki 38 #143 plans received and anxious to get started.

Hello, Everyone, Maggy and I received our plans a couple of days ago. Tiki 38 #143. We are now planning the exacts, as to where the boat workshop/shed should be placed on our very modest property, allowing the ability to move around as needed and the eventual transport loading for moving to the ICW. BTW we are also in the Blog/Website building stage. We are planning to share the workshop development, building, transport and everything in between with all of you. If anyone has any wisdom to…

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Posted on July 27, 2014 at 3:09pm — 2 Comments

Comment Wall (9 comments)

At 5:41am on June 25, 2014, Glenn Tieman said…

Hi Tom, thanks for the questions. I love the tama moana and talking about it. The steering paddles had a few problems initially which made them terrible to  handle, both the upper and lower mounting lines bound due to faulty geometry and the worst thing they were simply over-balanced. As I understand it the 'OTILLIA's' owner didn't put the time in to tackle the problems even though the wharrams made it clear that this was an experimental design. I made a number of changes over the years and the rudders/paddles are now very smooth operating, also having advantages over other systems. They can be very quickly raised, in fact unless short tacking I change rudders whenever tacking or jibing and use only one at a time. The version I have are also deep, good for pointing, but kick up with only minor damage (denting) when hitting something. The designers meanwhile have made more dramatic changes and there is also the Amatasi system which may be the best. Anyway my steering is light and effective. Will write more latter.

At 8:06pm on June 25, 2014, Tom Vogt said…
Thanks again Glen. I.wonder.if tjey are including the better modifications in new plans?
I look.forward to hear about detailed techniques of using the Crab Claw rig and such
Thanks again
Tom.Vogt
At 1:47am on June 26, 2014, Bertrand FERCOT said…

Hello Tom

We left Panama the 28 April and reached Hiva Oa (Marquises) the 28 may. Unhappily impossible to get a good Web connexion until we have met a very kind familly in the village of Omoa in FatuHiva.

Now we are in the Tuamotu at anchor beside the motu Totoro (15°33.5S 146°14.5W) on the atoll Apataki. Here is a little shipyard with internet!

Congratulations to rig your Tiki38 with  a biplane junk rig on unstayed masts. This rig is very easy to handle and you are free to customise the space between the hulls as you want.

For the masts you have different examples of building on the Junk Rig Association website and so my own examples for my Tiki30 and 46.

You'll have to reinforce the deck around where will be the mast in puting wood instead foam.

Concerning my Tiki46, her building has been spread on a long time and I had already  some wood . Withoput the price of the shelter and tools the total cost of the materials has been around 110.000 Euros. In fact the half is for the engines, equipements, ropes, sails and electronic 

It's a good boat but she needs a lot of work.

Friendly, Bertrand

At 6:15am on June 26, 2014, Glenn Tieman said…

Your use of the boat couldn't be more different from mine, and yet I think your idea is a great one. As a day charter boat she would have maximum solid deck space,(the spacers between the decking planks were added to the design before I even built the boat). The great feature would be the brailed sails when she sits on the beach, both because they look so cool, and because you'd only raise the sails in the morning, brail them when not in use and lower them only at night. When you have a trip you (along with the motoring) very easily snap open the sails. You'll have to put in some effort to make the brailing work right, sew guides into the sails for the upper brailing lines. This version of Crab Claw is very efficient, topgun for a real sailor like myself but also seems appropriate for chartering. In the trades I use a small size mainsail so that she needs little attention in a squall, and because the boat is so low drag this is fine, fast. In heavy weather I just add a drogue and leave the sails as they are. For close hauled it's more important to have enough sail up, but nobody except me sails in these conditions. Chartering you will use the small mainsail unless prevailing winds are very light as they are in Philippines, and you can count on using only the big one all day.

As for the steering paddles - the redesign they used on the lapita with the paddles reduced in depth and farther aft will suit you well. For myself I prefer the original deep farther forward paddles for pointing but this will not be a concern for you.

At 2:21pm on June 26, 2014, Tom Vogt said…
Well Glen, once again thank you for your information and thoughts.
My son and I will sail the vessel down, while the rest of the family flies.
I look forward to reading more of what is happening with you soon.
I plan on setting up a site and blog soon to share the build and our family venture with others.
Thanks agan
Tom
At 12:41am on July 21, 2014, Bertrand FERCOT said…

Hello Tom


It's a good idea to rig your Tiki38 with a parallel junk rig. As I haven't the building experience of a Tiki38 with a such rig, I'm unable to tell you what to do exactly.


At first you have to choose the type of junk rig you prefer. After you have two possibilities : to ask to a specialist of the junk rigs as Sunbird Marine to get a sail plan adapted to your boat or you design it yourself with the help of all the documentation of the Junk Rig Association + books + experiences as those I shared on this website and from another junk rigged cats.


Bertrand

At 8:25pm on July 21, 2014, Tom Vogt said…
Thanks Bertrand...
How are your unstayed masts doing, in regards to water leakage and such?
We are so far at an impass of which way we should go. Biplane junk unstayed like yours or
The Crab Claw rig like Beat's "Aluna" has... I Even wondered about a Biplane Crab Claw
and if the wind over the bows would effectually help the vortex lift as it does over the bows on Proas...
All.we know is a well made rig which is simple.can and will save build costs as well as maintenance and replacement costs in the future.
Well thanks again and hope to hear from you again soon.
At 6:21am on July 22, 2014, Glenn Tieman said…

Hi  Tom, The t38 is suits the desires of 99.9% or more of the cruising public better that a Tama Moana so I'm sure you choose well. I'm in regular contact with Beat and as far as he's said he's happy with the rig. If money matters at all to you cc is dramatically cheaper than others. the most important drawback to the average cruiser is it looks wrong to everyone to have such short masts. People constantly ridicule. Functionally short mast are better of course but yachting is virtually all posing, so this should be an important issue to almost  everyone.

I'm not in on this theory of air off proa bows interacting with sails, but from what you said I don't buy it. Number one crab claw sails do not generate "vortex lift" which requires vortexes generated along the leading edge then sweeping along the leeward face of the sail. for this to happen foils have to be swept back, in the  direction of the wind, by at least 45 degrees and this is not the case by far for crab claw sails.  Second for the bow to provide a kind of end plate of any significance the sail would have to be sealed right to it. A couple inches gap wipes it out. In fact one reason the crab claw is efficient is that it approximates elliptical shape better than others - not semi-elliptical.

At 7:57am on July 22, 2014, Tom Vogt said…
Well, Thanks for your input Glen.
The idea of air over the bows is something I have regularly read on Proa forums in regards to Marchaj's vortex lift conclusions in his studies, but I do not really know :) Hence my reason to ask those who have used this rig for quite some time. BTW... I can not seem to find any information regarding the intricacies of building and/using this rig. I know many Yachtees seem to frown upon it because of it's clearly NON-Western look and approach , but for me that is just another attraction.and something must be said about a rig that has been around 1000 years or more.
Glen as always it is.a.pleasure and I hope all is well in your world. Hope to hear from you soon and God Bless.

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