Vern,
You tell us you are widening your ORO [47ft] while it is afloat. How are you managing to work during the winter. I am interested because I am doing the same work to my Tangaroa in England. It's nowhere near as cold as Canada, but often well below the 10 degrees I need for the epoxy I use.
Vern, you mentioned putting your cat on the beach, is there any thing I should know about doing this as I am considering doing the same thing? Is it really as simple as dragging it out?
Sarah, I don't know if you have tides there like we do, we have 12ft. tides here, I just go up at high tide then when it's out enough I start jacking it up one hull at a time. I raised mine up till it was always out of the water. the only thing at high tide cant work on it unless I want to get wet. look under my pics in photo section to see it up. any boat yard, the cheapest here is $25.00 a day off season. I can get a new battery every week for that price.
If you can you could make a couple of sleds and pull it out if you have a beach that slopes right.Vern.
Thanks Vern the sleds are a great idea. We don't have tides here at all but we do have lots of beaches that I could get a truck ino to pull the boat out. Our nearest boat yard is on the next island and also charges a fortune!
I presume as long as the beams are in good order there is no need to re-inforce the two hulls in any way?
Sarah, I would think the beams would be ok. out in a storm the boat would do a lot more pounding than just pulling it up a beach. if you could find a few small round logs you could pull it up on those, just keep moving the ones from the back to the front, it would roll just like on wheels.
hi all if you look into photos there is a picture of the blue tangaroa.it was fully restored where it is in the photo.For some work we had up to 10 hrs dry on a clean sand cay which is shown in another photo with a big anvil cloud in the background.Also Kalembo Ad'e was built not more than 20 meters off the beach and was manouvered on planks and rollers to a launching site then slid on shoes over the ridges of hard palm fron leaves and bamboo rollers.If you find a good safe beach and can get her in and out go for it as Vern said those boat yards can most times be costly and cost more the longer you are up on the hard.best Dave
Thanks Dave, it seems the only problem we are going to have is with the local Mayor! As soon as the weather lets up a bit we will give it a go... i shall be blogging and asking advice all the way!!! Thanks again guys.
Can anybody please tell me what length my tangaroa mk1 should be.... it is 10.70m. I have been told that it's not built to plan, but having trawled all the wharram pages I can find no information on the mk1!!
Length of Mk1. The designed length of the Tangaroa Mk1 was 34ftoa.
However, given the very simple hull design, I am sure that some builders decided to add on a bit. I have heard of a Mk2, but never seen a picture of one. A Mk3 I have never even heard of. The Mk4, which was the final expression of the Tangaroa design, is 35ft 6inches.
If you go to a website called ' Multihull Maven', you will be able to find details of all Wharram boats, [and everyone else's also].
The absolute oracle on all things Wharram is probably Steve Turner. He is a surveyor who has built, sailed, and surveyed shedloads of Wharrams. Post your query on the multihull.com forum, when it is up and running again.
I did answer your request, [on the above], for Tangaroa Mk1 drawings, but possibly you have not been able to access the site. Briefly, I said that I have never seen any Tangaroa drawings, but that if you drew a blank, I could send you loads of photo's of mine.
Hauling out boat. Vern has already passed sensible comment. May I I add a couple of remarks? Let's assume the boat is 'square' as it floats. After you have hauled it up the beach, by whatever means, it would be good, if when the boat came to rest, that it was still square. While afloat, take a diagonal measurement, [anywhere will do, but possibly easiest is from one stem to perhaps a beam end on the other hull]. When the boat is beached, check that you have the same measurement.
Have you good people to help with the haul out? There are a couple of important points about attaching the towing bridle to the hulls, and the 'line of pull' from the boat to the winch.
Good luck.
Thanks Pete, as you say the multihulls forum is frustratingly still down. A gent on there suggested that my boat is not built to plan.... but I have no idea why!! I am starting to wonder if my boat is indeed a mk2 or 3 it's not written on the paperwork anywhere! Photo's of yours would be great, I could at least try to compare. Thanks for the hauling out tips, I shall be sure to check the measuremets. Thanks again.
Hi all ,I have just sent a bunch of restoration and refit photos i had to scan of 'Pepecat'getting another lease of life.The job was so exstensive that if it were anywhere other than Indonesia,where labour and material costs are a lot lower it would surely been cheaper to build a new one.We went from bow to stern with fine tooth comb and cleared every bit of rot,including the keels,reglassed the whole boat with epoxy,new box beams [now lashed],new bearers and decks in teak,new cabin tops [entry from center deck not rear now],new windows,mast and maststep refit, non skid decks ,the whole boat 3 coats 2 pk epoxy paint and 3 coats poly 2pk.fittings and many more.I realize after you refit your wharram well and with good care these boats can last a long time and still be safe to go'" just about' "anywhere and the job can be done on a beach if nessesary
Hej there we have found this wharram on the net in the UK and are wondering if this is worth restoring or is it too big a job . If anyone of you have the time to read the details and give us your opinion that would be great, cheers...http://www.multihulls.uk.com/wharram/p42_1170.htm
Dennis, that boat's in way better shape than the one I bought, at least it looks it.
I dont know how long before I can even use mine, your still young so go for it, unless your rich and can buy a new one!! work on it as you use it. Vern
I am not sure where the best place to post this but it is IMPORTANT.
I posted it on my page but it seems to me that the restoring group might be the best place so here it is again.
I had my boat safety checked by the US Coast Guard Auxiliary - it was free and they also don't turn you in for major violations. I made every effort to "Pass" the inspection. THE ONE BIG THING IT TURNED UP was very important. I did not have an HIN or Hull Inspection Number. Something that has been overlooked for 30 yrs with no trouble. My boat was sold by the builder and purchased by another fellow who then sold it to me. By the letter of the law we all committed crimes. Argh! I had no idea nor did anybody else. I read the Florida statute and freaked out. I also read up on this - It is a Federal requirement and the rules have change several times since my boat was built. My boat now has an HIN clearly marked so is stone cold legal. I have looked at many older home built boats and this has never come up. I don't know if they do or do not have HIN's but now that our government has HomelyLandsickurity in charge of the waterways it is for sure smart to go check on it and make sure you're legal. The law says that ANY law enforcement officer can confiscate and impound your boat until its proven that you legally own it. In other words they can take your boat and charge you for storing it while the guvmint sorts out whatever. SInce mine has a thirty year history and has been registered in three states it might take them forever to sort it out. Scary stuff. I have taken steps to further backup the legality of my boat. I hate to sound like a scaredy cat (pun intended) but this stuff terrifies me.
The other interesting thing that I turned up was that the USCGA inspector glanced at my type 3 MSD and said its a Portapotti. I showed him the rating on it and he said oh don't worry its ok to have a portapotti. Very worrisome - it is a standard looking potti but has the needed stuff to pipe thru the deck and a pump out fitting. He also argued I would have to have a Y valve to be legal. Now here is a guy who simply has not read the various rules and he is inspecting boats. He passed me but taught me that if it looks like a portapotti it is probably going to have to be PROVEN that its a type 3 MSD. So I printed out ALL the info on it including the US Coast Guards regulations and put them all in a zip lock next to my MSD. Glad I found this out before it made me eligible for a misunderstanding resulting in a ticket. One of my neighbors in the anchorage was threatened with a 5,000 dollar fine!?!? Dunno if they can do that but don't want to find out.
So the "free" USCGA VSC or Vessel Safety Check ordeal is over and it was well worth finding out about. It turned up two problems I did not know I had and allowed me to fix them gracefully. I would encourage anyone in the US to go ahead and get one and pay attention to what the inspector says. Hope this helps - Bill and Tang in Palatka Fl
I don't know if this is for all boats anywhere? If you have paperwork from your country and a US cruising permit I would assume it would be ok to not have an HIN from your country. I did read discussion on a US Coast Guard website about problems with other countries issuing HIN's that were close enough to the US issued HIN's that they had a problem and the discussion indicated that worldwide we should consider going to a 17 digit HIN indicating country of origin first. I would check with what passes for the boating authority in your country for sure. Maybe a phone call with no specific details <grin> I believe the EU uses a similar system to the one the US uses. I did find out that the Coast Guard will issue HINs for builders who produce very few boats. Maybe one?
When I read the penalties and realized they treat you as guilty first It really worried me. I am awaiting a notarized statement from the builder on a US Coast Guard builders form. I just got my antique vessel sticker today!
On this issue it seems that a few questions in advance could save a lot of trouble later. If you plan to cruise in the US you might want to ask the USCG first. Hope this helps Bill SV Tang
Yes this is important. It would be well worth posting on the main forum as it raises many questions and even here not many will see it.
In EU the HIN is the CIN .But it was only first issued in 1996 and exempt boats [inc. home-builds] do not have it.
I suspect in your case it is an age thing. You said this boat is 30yrs old? I doubt if the US were issuing HINs in 1983 ? Check it out ! Are home-builds exempt ?
But plenty of serious issues here. There was here on this site recently a well known boat for sale only a year or so old. USA built for sale EU. As I understand it not only will tax have to be paid on the sale but a complete set of papers ie. RCD. Cert. etc are needed even a user's manual is required.....
I don't know how to post on the main forum, maybe it could be a regular subject, is that what you mean Galway? Since our boats tend to be scattered around the world the legalities are a bit shifty. I got a kick out of contemplating an owners manual. Ok that end is the front... That is UP and so on. Most Wharram owners wouldn't pay much attention anyway, too busy plotting and scheming the next upgrades. Grin.
On the specific laws on HIN in the USA they have changed several times since Nov 1st 1972 as I understand it. Prior to 72 an HIN was not required, then any boat US or imported had to have one. My boat was built between 1977 and 1983 the completion year. However the registration indicates it was first registered in 1985 - the year of the title is 83. This is important because it is smack in between the first changes in HIN rules. Before August 1st 1984 all boats built or imported into the US had to have two identical HINs. And Catamarans should have one on the aft crossbeam within one foot of the starboard hull That statement was ALL boats in the US.
Then after August 1st 1984 one of the numbers has to be hidden inside the boat in an unexposed location...
So since my boat was completed in 83 and titled as an 83 but shows the year of 1985 in its assigned Hull number it neatly straddles the rule change. What is stunning to me is that it survived for 30 yrs in the US without any of it. All fixed now.
There is a mindboggling amount of info on this but the first one seems to cover what we need to know.
Please know that the issues of documenting a boat are different and I don't know much about that.
If somebody wants to start a Wharram legalities or something section that would be good. I think. I am going to post some pictures on this topic sometime in the next week or two. Bill - SV Tang
vern
Oct 2, 2008
Pete Rigby
You tell us you are widening your ORO [47ft] while it is afloat. How are you managing to work during the winter. I am interested because I am doing the same work to my Tangaroa in England. It's nowhere near as cold as Canada, but often well below the 10 degrees I need for the epoxy I use.
Best wishes, Pete Rigby
Nov 3, 2008
vern
Nov 14, 2008
sarah
Jan 19, 2009
vern
If you can you could make a couple of sleds and pull it out if you have a beach that slopes right.Vern.
Jan 20, 2009
sarah
I presume as long as the beams are in good order there is no need to re-inforce the two hulls in any way?
Jan 20, 2009
vern
Jan 21, 2009
sarah
Jan 21, 2009
Dave Mellor
Jan 21, 2009
sarah
Jan 22, 2009
sarah
Jan 23, 2009
Pete Rigby
Length of Mk1. The designed length of the Tangaroa Mk1 was 34ftoa.
However, given the very simple hull design, I am sure that some builders decided to add on a bit. I have heard of a Mk2, but never seen a picture of one. A Mk3 I have never even heard of. The Mk4, which was the final expression of the Tangaroa design, is 35ft 6inches.
If you go to a website called ' Multihull Maven', you will be able to find details of all Wharram boats, [and everyone else's also].
The absolute oracle on all things Wharram is probably Steve Turner. He is a surveyor who has built, sailed, and surveyed shedloads of Wharrams. Post your query on the multihull.com forum, when it is up and running again.
I did answer your request, [on the above], for Tangaroa Mk1 drawings, but possibly you have not been able to access the site. Briefly, I said that I have never seen any Tangaroa drawings, but that if you drew a blank, I could send you loads of photo's of mine.
Hauling out boat. Vern has already passed sensible comment. May I I add a couple of remarks? Let's assume the boat is 'square' as it floats. After you have hauled it up the beach, by whatever means, it would be good, if when the boat came to rest, that it was still square. While afloat, take a diagonal measurement, [anywhere will do, but possibly easiest is from one stem to perhaps a beam end on the other hull]. When the boat is beached, check that you have the same measurement.
Have you good people to help with the haul out? There are a couple of important points about attaching the towing bridle to the hulls, and the 'line of pull' from the boat to the winch.
Good luck.
Jan 23, 2009
Pete Rigby
The following addresses link to the older forms of various Wharram forums. Good stuff for a rainy day.
http://web.archive.org/web/20010211165438/www.multihulls.uk.com/pca/index.htm
http://www.themultihull.net/wcforum2/disc10_tocf.htm
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/index/WHARRAM
Jan 23, 2009
sarah
Jan 24, 2009
Dave Mellor
Jan 24, 2009
Pete Rigby
Do you have an e-mail address to which I can bung a load of photo's ?
My e-mail is, Pete@rigby5679.fsnet.co.uk
Jan 25, 2009
sarah
http://www.austrian-wharrams.org/main_menu/epic_voyages_table.htm
Jan 26, 2009
Dave Mellor
Jan 31, 2009
Dennis Dalgaard Laursen
Mar 9, 2009
vern
I dont know how long before I can even use mine, your still young so go for it, unless your rich and can buy a new one!! work on it as you use it. Vern
Mar 9, 2009
sarah
May 4, 2009
Bill Ludeman
I am not sure where the best place to post this but it is IMPORTANT.
I posted it on my page but it seems to me that the restoring group might be the best place so here it is again.
I had my boat safety checked by the US Coast Guard Auxiliary - it was free and they also don't turn you in for major violations. I made every effort to "Pass" the inspection. THE ONE BIG THING IT TURNED UP was very important. I did not have an HIN or Hull Inspection Number. Something that has been overlooked for 30 yrs with no trouble. My boat was sold by the builder and purchased by another fellow who then sold it to me. By the letter of the law we all committed crimes. Argh! I had no idea nor did anybody else. I read the Florida statute and freaked out. I also read up on this - It is a Federal requirement and the rules have change several times since my boat was built. My boat now has an HIN clearly marked so is stone cold legal. I have looked at many older home built boats and this has never come up. I don't know if they do or do not have HIN's but now that our government has HomelyLandsickurity in charge of the waterways it is for sure smart to go check on it and make sure you're legal. The law says that ANY law enforcement officer can confiscate and impound your boat until its proven that you legally own it. In other words they can take your boat and charge you for storing it while the guvmint sorts out whatever. SInce mine has a thirty year history and has been registered in three states it might take them forever to sort it out. Scary stuff. I have taken steps to further backup the legality of my boat. I hate to sound like a scaredy cat (pun intended) but this stuff terrifies me.
The other interesting thing that I turned up was that the USCGA inspector glanced at my type 3 MSD and said its a Portapotti. I showed him the rating on it and he said oh don't worry its ok to have a portapotti. Very worrisome - it is a standard looking potti but has the needed stuff to pipe thru the deck and a pump out fitting. He also argued I would have to have a Y valve to be legal. Now here is a guy who simply has not read the various rules and he is inspecting boats. He passed me but taught me that if it looks like a portapotti it is probably going to have to be PROVEN that its a type 3 MSD. So I printed out ALL the info on it including the US Coast Guards regulations and put them all in a zip lock next to my MSD. Glad I found this out before it made me eligible for a misunderstanding resulting in a ticket. One of my neighbors in the anchorage was threatened with a 5,000 dollar fine!?!? Dunno if they can do that but don't want to find out.
So the "free" USCGA VSC or Vessel Safety Check ordeal is over and it was well worth finding out about. It turned up two problems I did not know I had and allowed me to fix them gracefully. I would encourage anyone in the US to go ahead and get one and pay attention to what the inspector says. Hope this helps - Bill and Tang in Palatka Fl
Mar 23, 2013
Iain & Cherry Mae Cairns
Thanx for the info Bill, does this include boats travelling to the US or just US registared boats.
Iain & Cherry
Mar 23, 2013
Bill Ludeman
I don't know if this is for all boats anywhere? If you have paperwork from your country and a US cruising permit I would assume it would be ok to not have an HIN from your country. I did read discussion on a US Coast Guard website about problems with other countries issuing HIN's that were close enough to the US issued HIN's that they had a problem and the discussion indicated that worldwide we should consider going to a 17 digit HIN indicating country of origin first. I would check with what passes for the boating authority in your country for sure. Maybe a phone call with no specific details <grin> I believe the EU uses a similar system to the one the US uses. I did find out that the Coast Guard will issue HINs for builders who produce very few boats. Maybe one?
When I read the penalties and realized they treat you as guilty first It really worried me. I am awaiting a notarized statement from the builder on a US Coast Guard builders form. I just got my antique vessel sticker today!
On this issue it seems that a few questions in advance could save a lot of trouble later. If you plan to cruise in the US you might want to ask the USCG first. Hope this helps Bill SV Tang
Mar 23, 2013
Galway Bay
Yes this is important. It would be well worth posting on the main forum as it raises many questions and even here not many will see it.
In EU the HIN is the CIN .But it was only first issued in 1996 and exempt boats [inc. home-builds] do not have it.
I suspect in your case it is an age thing. You said this boat is 30yrs old? I doubt if the US were issuing HINs in 1983 ? Check it out ! Are home-builds exempt ?
But plenty of serious issues here. There was here on this site recently a well known boat for sale only a year or so old. USA built for sale EU. As I understand it not only will tax have to be paid on the sale but a complete set of papers ie. RCD. Cert. etc are needed even a user's manual is required.....
Mar 24, 2013
Bill Ludeman
I don't know how to post on the main forum, maybe it could be a regular subject, is that what you mean Galway? Since our boats tend to be scattered around the world the legalities are a bit shifty. I got a kick out of contemplating an owners manual. Ok that end is the front... That is UP and so on. Most Wharram owners wouldn't pay much attention anyway, too busy plotting and scheming the next upgrades. Grin.
On the specific laws on HIN in the USA they have changed several times since Nov 1st 1972 as I understand it. Prior to 72 an HIN was not required, then any boat US or imported had to have one. My boat was built between 1977 and 1983 the completion year. However the registration indicates it was first registered in 1985 - the year of the title is 83. This is important because it is smack in between the first changes in HIN rules. Before August 1st 1984 all boats built or imported into the US had to have two identical HINs. And Catamarans should have one on the aft crossbeam within one foot of the starboard hull That statement was ALL boats in the US.
Then after August 1st 1984 one of the numbers has to be hidden inside the boat in an unexposed location...
So since my boat was completed in 83 and titled as an 83 but shows the year of 1985 in its assigned Hull number it neatly straddles the rule change. What is stunning to me is that it survived for 30 yrs in the US without any of it. All fixed now.
Here is a reference website
http://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/hin.html
and here is the USCG boatbuilders info page
http://www.uscgboating.org/regulations/boat_builders_handbook_and_r...
There is a mindboggling amount of info on this but the first one seems to cover what we need to know.
Please know that the issues of documenting a boat are different and I don't know much about that.
If somebody wants to start a Wharram legalities or something section that would be good. I think. I am going to post some pictures on this topic sometime in the next week or two. Bill - SV Tang
Mar 24, 2013