I've started this group to draw out the creative juices of anyone who has worked on a Tiki 31. I love the boat, but fully recognise that it is not everyone's cup of tea. It isn't a workboat and isn't set up as a traveler, despite what Wharram says. It has so much potential - but how to realise it? Should I cut the aft cabins off and build Tiki 30 style cabins? Is it worth keeping the schooner rig? Should i trim beam 3 to make it a mast beam like on the Tiki 38, freeing up more cabin space?
There are many examples of variations on the design - like Lookfar in Vancouver.
Why doesn't mine go upwind well - Wharram says it was the best upwind design!
Paul -- I have been building/sailing/rebuilding/now modifing my TIKI 31 for over ten years -- this will be the last major rebuild for me -- so I want to get it as right as I can. Some of my observations when sailing and generally hanging out are that the twin 'cockpits' are seldom used -- the deck between the fore cabins never used and the boat tends to have a rear weight bias. The deck lockers partition the three areas of the cockpit into three separate spaces -- too small to be really useful -- my new approach will be to use one locker box transversely behind a wheel steering and drop the deck 4 inches between the hulls -- now we are talking a very wide center, and somewhat protected cockpit (16 feet wide). I will add a front 'pod' similar to the TIKI 46 -- as for weight -- all in all I should be close to what I have now. The major 'big' idea has been my composite beams. They are built to the same dimensions but much, much lighter. I have not finished them -- but I figure to be under 50 pounds!
I need a little help with mast rake -- I am not clear as to the benefits of greater angle -- I am about 5' on the TIKI 38 I have read other builders with as much as 9' fore mast and 7' main.
I have been self taught on all aspects -- therefore much of my discoveries could use a dose of experience. This project will be going on this spring in New Bern, North Carolina -- anyone wishing to help, observe, etc. will be welcome -- I have plenty of space and grill a pretty mean salmon -- and always cold beer in the cooler.
These are some pretty significant changes, I look forward to watching your progress. On mast rake I agree that I'm not sure why so much rake is used. Mine is definitely over-raked which produces a lot of weather helm and the top of the aft mast is in line with the attachment of the rear shrouds, which lead to mast wobble and beam twist - definitely needs addressing.
I saw a picture of you boat, she looks really well looked after. I'd love to find out more about your wheel steering, is it much better than the tiller bar?
What engine are you using? What is its fuel consumption and best speed?
Paul -- As for the wheel vs tiller -- I am not sure -- I was excited about the whip-staff arrangement but didn't feel there was enough movement before one runs out of room so I elected to use the wheel steering from my Nari plans.
My power choice is a 9.9 Yamaha electric start long shaft. I remember averaging about 3/4 gal per hour @ an average of 5+ knots. I have powered up to 7+ knots at full throttle. That was an eight day motor up the ICW (tidal). My new 'Kort Nozzle' should improve the performance. I originally used the planed motor box -- then changed to a Gerlick vertical drop unit; however, I plan to go back to the original with a articulated hinge that will allow an additional 5 inches of drop in the down position and then raise up to clear the water. There will be a lock mechanism to prevent the motor from pulling itself out in a 'power' reverse. I had come up with a 'bridge' in which to mount a double purchase block system to make the job of easily lowering the engine. There is still another item regarding I would like to try -- and that is attaching a control to the motor that would allow for the motor to work with the steering.
Because the 'pod' will be about 8" below the beams -- I would like to get some feedback -- I really don't want to be surfing in a 'chop'. Wharram's 'POD' for the TIKI 30 looks to be about 8" below it's beam level -- I would like to have that confirmed before I start cutting material.
My mast steps where made from an idea I found in PCA years ago by a Canadian builder named Rolly Herbich -- It consists of a S/Steel collar wleded to a flat plate with a hinged bearing between a second flat plate. To create the mast rake is a simple matter of inserting the proper shim between the two plates. I have welded locating angle to straddle the mast step beam locations.
By placing the weight bias a little more forward I hope to balance the helm -- it's not bad -- but I really have little to compare (as I have mentioned -- I am teaching myself what I can -- relying of other experienced sailors to help keep me from making too many mistakes).
I am very excited to see what the 'Kort Nozzle' effect does -- in theory it should be very good. Sea People several years back had an article with a follow up that I have never seen. I will take good notes and plenty of photos -- good or bad -- The unit I bought was from Washington state USA @ a cost of around $130 US. (Pooder Built)
http://pooderbuilt.com/Prop%20Guard%203.JPG
Thanks for starting the Tiki 31 blog and thanks to 'Budget Boaters' for the site and inspiration.
Thom,
I currently have 2 18 year old Mercury 2 stroke 9.9s and find them very unrelaible and underpowered and burn too much fuel. I'd like to switch to a 9.9 4 stroke Yamaha FT (High Thrust). With the old engines I have had trouble motoring into tide and wind. I need reliability and a good kick.
The engines are mounted on those spring assisted lowering brackets mounted on Beam 4. It feels a long way down when trying to raise them and the engines are very exposed to waves and chop, which means they frequently have waves breaking over them, which can't help reliability.
I'm alsp not that keen on using 2 stroke engines in quiet idylic river extuaries with delicate ecosystems - doesn't seem to fit the Wharram ethos.
Looks like I've convinced myself to splash out on a new Yamaha - seems to be around £1,800 - do you know a cheaper way to buy them?
I have been pleased with my Yamaha -- I did add a 'Kort Nozzle' type ring around the prop. Hopefully I will have Thomcat back in the water this summer to test all the 'new' innovations out. As for price -- I bought mine from a Canadian dealer, although that may not be so good for you. Ebay Euro might offer some deals. You may want to consider the 15 hp unit -- same weight, more 'poop'. My mounting is the same as yours -- I plan to go back the the original unit Wharram designed. I will run two S/S straps from the transom to the floor of the engine pod bracing. I also built a bridge over the engine to allow for double purchase lift mechanism -- keeps the weight manageable. By placing some of the weight bias forward I hope to balance the boat out -- you may notice the 31 tend to set a little low in the stern. I may have mentioned that I am raising the masts 3 feet to clear the mid cockpit POD. I also may elect to slightly lower the main cockpit a few inches (maybe up to 5 inches). Since the POD will hang 7 inches lower than the bottom of the beams having the central cockpit a few inches lower should be OK -- I can always raise it back. I will not be using the deck lockers as such -- I am keeping one and mounting it perpendicular to the hulls -- using it as a helm seat petrol storage.
Hi Greg,
One Mast is a good question and I've discussed it with Hanneke at Wharram designs. She wasn't sure but suggested positioning the single mast between beams 1 and 2 on a longitudinal strut. I'm keen to try it in order to tidy up the sail plan and also I have a feeling that the schooner rig is to weight fwd for the 31. As a result she tends to go bow down in a blow and if you get a following sea as well the stern breaks away making it hard to surf smoothly without a lot of helm. I learned this coming across the channel in a 7 (I think) with all sail down accept a small fwd main. Still reached 15 kts but had real trouble stopping her rounding up.
My sails are as you described, with straps inside and zippers on the sleeves. The zips tend to age and when I bought the boat las t year i had a lot of trouble getting them to start and slide.
I'm almost certainly going to try one mast and a reduced beam 3, allowing more accomodation to be closed in aft.
Greg -- The Tiki 30 is a taller rig -- no matter, these boats can use a bit more sail. I considered setting my 31 up with a single mast -- but after serious consideration decided to build as planed. I am in the process of extending my mast a total of 4'. The idea of balance seems to be the operative principle. As for deck clutter -- the mizzen mast does not add much because it is behind the cockpit anyway.
I believe the 'straps' issue is written somewhere -- but they are not at all complicated. Most sail makers that I had talked to understood from the get go.
Google 'buckles' , 'buckle hardware', 'luggage repair hardware' -- there are firms know as 'finders' in the shoe making trade -- they usually have distributors that will sell small quantities.
For any interested parties -- I have decided to change my approach regarding a Deck Pod for my Tiki 3. After attending the Florida Keys WHARRAM RENDEZVOUS this past May I decided to modify my modifications. I am calling it my 'Semi' Pod. Attached are a few photos -- My plan is still to raise the masts by three feet (I have already added a one foot block) making the total four feet taller than plans. The 'Semi-Pod' has a recessed foot well, seats along each side and oak combings all round. In addition there is a over the pod 'line' board which will support the line clutches for the main mast and a winch. Experiments? I also decided to use an industrial cargo 'bed liner' material for the the surface coating. It sure makes the 'non-slip' grade! The 'Semi-Pod' will replace the forward central deck with all but six inches above deck level -- most of the unit will be within the beam depth. The exception is about eight inches for the foot well.
Another idea -- we'll see how this one works -- I articulated the 'arms' of my engine 'pod' to give it added lift as well as more depth -- there is a photo for comments as well.
Any suggestions? -- I will post this on the Tiki 31 pages as well.
Hello all!!! I'm in the discovery process getting ready to build a Wharram. I live in the caribbean and have sailed around and across the atlantic on monohulls for several years now. I currently live aboard a custom built (not by me) chinese junk, but it is not turning into the boat I want to go cruising on. I'm looking for something simple...very simple...that will take me, maybe one other adult, and as little gear as possible, as far as possible. I've read the Wharram design book and have the study plans for the Tiki 31, but I'm still unsure if it is the right boat for me. The only Wharram in this part of the caribbean that I know of is a Pahi 26 and not a great example of what I would be getting into. I know that I want to go far with a small separate head, a simple galley and comfortable sleeping space. I have money saved and am planning on taking time off to work on the project full-time. How long should it take, realistically, to build the Tiki 31, is it really the traveller they claim it is and most importantly, what do you guys love most about the tiki 31 and what should be changed?
Welcome aboard! I just noticed your comments -- but it's late -- I will write more tomorrow when I can collect my thoughts. I will say, my Tiki took considerably longer than the plans say, and longer than I thought. As a boat -- I think it has a lot going for it -- but it's very adaptable -- I think mine will be far better for what I am doing. Taller masts for sure, and a sun shield (bimini).
Hello all,
I have been following the discussion on this group for a while.
I am building a Tiki 31 on the island of Crete, Greece since 2006. I chose the design on the first place because it was the larger Wharram I could afford building and the smaller scooner rigged which I liked, though the internal volume of the boat is small for its length. To solve this I desided to modify the plans by enclosing the central cockpit area on each hull, creating enough space for an enclosed toilet in one hull and a galley in the other. This requires to build beam throughs (like on the Tiki 38) for beams 2 and 3. I am thinking to build two semi-bulkheads in each hull (next to bulkheads 5 and 7), extending down to the level of the cockpit floor (cocpit floor will be build at the level the plans assign). These semi-bulkheads in combination with bulkheads 5 and 7 will form the beam throughs and also will support the cabin roof of these new enclosed compartments. The cockpit floor itself will have a central larger opening cut (instead of the two smaller hatch openings of the plans), which will leave enough space for an adult to cook or use the toilet.
Since I haven't seen these modifications in another Tiki 31, I was wondering if they will compromise the strength of the construction. I will strengthen the cockpit floor with hardwood stiffeners on longitudinal and lateral axis and there will be hardwood bearers to support the beamthroughs' floor but any other ideas or suggestions are welcome!
Welcome Manos -- I would keep an eye on your weight. I would check with Wharram to be sure, but I think there would be little problem with eliminating beam 3. Perhaps strengthening the deck between. The third beam cuts into the space creating too many small compartments. I also don't see a serious problem with raising the cabin tops 6" to 8"overall. Ethically, having the cabin roofs begin at the same height as the tops of the beams is smart looking, but a extra inches inside would make a huge difference. Just a few observations that have occurred to me over the years. Raising the mast is another. Mine are 12" higher -- I have another 3' extrusions on hand. If I where making them from scratch -- there would be no question on having the sail plan raised off the deck a bit more than plans suggest. My modifications are nearly complete, so we will see. I have discovered a new paint that sounds good -- 'Top Secret Coatings' -- Google them for more info.
Thanks for the advice Thom! Weight is certainly a major issue with catamarans. I am not sure but I think my modifications won't add more than 30-35 kg to the boat. In addition I'm thinking of reducing the overall weight by using canvas rather than a hard top for the roof of a deck pod, which will replace the central deck area( something like your semi pod but with a wind screen and a canvas top for protection from the sun).
Of course if I want to construct a pod like this I have to make higher masts. This is already decided since all the owners of Tiki 31's recommend it. By the way, to make the masts about 1m higher do I also have to change the position of the shroud backing pads on the top hull sides?
Good idea about the 'soft top'. I am not planning to change the shrouds. I have been told it won't make that much difference. You may want to consider building your beams out of foam and fiberglass. My beam weight has gone from about 150/175 lb. to about 50 lb. (22.5 kg - to 78 kg). I also decided to change the deck lockers to one that is centered and perpendicular between the two cockpits. By this I would eliminate some of the chopped up compartments -- making the cockpit nearly 18 feet across with two deep wells. I see this as a vast improvement for livability as well as simple day sailing.
Hello all!
I am thinking of ordering the sails for my Tiki 31 from Jeckells one of these days.
I would like to use a riffing system with the foresail, but have no idea what to look for. Any suggestions about the best value for money product are welcome.
Also people from Jeckells are claiming that I will have to use a boom with the mizzen as there is no sheeting point far enough after (If I understood that correctly). Any ideas about that?
Greetings!
Manos
Hi everyone. Before starting to build my Richard Woods Surfsong, I asked the study plans of the T31 and almost started building it. As I'm still interested in this design (especially for it's schooner rig which I find so aesthetically pleasing), I'll keep learning from your comments. You never know, maybe in the future...
Having said this, I'll try to post a couple of very basic drawings, so you can send me your feedback, regarding ideas to enclose the (should be) open cockpits.
Best regards.
I've changed the drafts for a more tidy drawing. I imagine the enclosing of the cockpits in a way it tries not to increase windage and weight much, leaving the 4 cabins with bunks for 4 to 6 people, a galley in one enclosed cockpit and a navigation table, a wet locker and WC in the other (none of them with standing headroom, but a tolerable sitting headroom). By giving up standing headroom, I can save working another 1500 hs. to build a Tiki 38!
Hector -- What a good design! If I where ten years younger I would consider such a redesign -- It make all kinds of sense -- and it's good looking too!
Hello Hector,
The last drawing you have posted is great! It is exactly what I have in mind for my Tiki 31, although I intend to use the one central enclosed cockpit as a galley and for storage and the other one as a toilet and wet locker. I have also made arrangements for two water tanks which will be installed under the beam troughs of beam 2 in the enclosed cockpits. The volume of these areas as I now see it is enough to move around and you have more then descent sitting headroom ( about 1,6 m above the floor I have already installed). I am still working on the idea of making a large opening over each cockpit with an expandable roof top, like on the Pahi 31, which will give me standing headroom when being at anchor. One rear cabin will host the navigation table and instruments along with the boats main electrical panel, batteries etc.
I hope I will soon be able to post some photos with my progress on all these matters but I would like to hear your comments for any adjustments, while there is still time...
Manos
Manos, I'll be following your blog with great interest. I'm very curious about how the arrangement works. At sea, under nasty weather or rain, coming out of the galley or the toilet to go to the forward cabins could be unconfortable, but the privacy of the 4 cabins and the posibility of sleeping confortably while the rest of the crew cooks, sails, uses de toilet or navigates, could be very interesting.
Hector, you are right about the bad weather. However, since there is no way you can move freely from the cabins to the central cockpits because of the beams, there is no point in making these compartments to communicate. On the other hand keeping the cabins and navigation area free of the smell and water-moisture of the galley and toilet is essential but not easy in a small boat where usually these areas are in the same compartment. After all, having more than one separated watertight compartments may add to the safety of the boat.
Manos
I know that Wharram suggests not to enclose the cockpits, but as I can see in the photos, almost every Tiki 31 owner finds his own way of enclosing them with canvas or some other way, and in the end, it's unaesthetic and it ruins the design and windage, even worse than building a nice and logical cabin.
Thanks for setting up this site. Have recenty found a TIKI 31 after a long search, and many of your comments here helped me in the search, and getting decided, as well as Paul's narrative of his trip from France (his was one of the boats I tracked!). Likewise with Tom's useful photos, Manos blog and Hector's insightful musings. WIll add photos as soon as have them. Best regards to all,
Jose
Hi All,
I started this group a while back and feel bad that I haven't added much for a while. I changed my career path a year ago and am now a full time professional sailor, doing deliveries, classroom training, and practical training.
This summer I finally managed to get my 31 back in the water after 18 mnths of sporadic maintenance. I actually spent much of the time removing bits to try and get back to the original boat.
For this season I've taken off the aft mast. One of the previous owners increased the rig height and I find I can get 10 to 12 knots easily with the main and the jib - so I'll try the single mast for a while. we had a blast down the coast of Devon and the balance seems great, much simpler rig.
Next year I'm considering cutting beam 3 to amke it just a deck beam, like on the Tiki38. I sopke to Hanneke and she thinks this would be okay. This will allow me to build in the cockpits and run the cabin all the way through to beam 4. Nervous though.
I'll post photos of my trip asap. Anyone want ot buy my 31 before I start cutting?
Answering questions first, come from a Peruvian and Mexican family, living in the UK since 05, but travelling around more than I should. Happy to discuss boats in Spanish anytime Hector! Noticed that there seems to be an active Wharram group around the river plate -several you tube posts, and another member -Matias Vidal, somewhere around in this website- seems to be around the brazilian coast now in a refurbished tanenui blogging from there. Have also studied your own drawings -which are magnificent. Your rationale for a 1500 hours less T38 seems sensible. The whole thing lies on beam 3 -even if left on, with three separate cabins, cabin might be rather wet, as water would come through the hole for the beam lashings. So might be the case that either you take it out (Paul's route), or you will have to create some beam throughs, or encapsulate the beams somehow to aoid water rushing in -but might be prone to getting rot. I found another alternaive: some photos of a tiki 31, which was being sold in Australia -that had sorted it out by placing beam 3 on top of the cabin, allowing for a long forward cabin. Looked like a long tiki Twenty six albeit a bit strange with the beam out of line with the others, on top of the cabin.
As you Paul, I have just been trying to improve the boat to its original state. The boat is structurally sound, but the decks slats where in bad shape, and one of the beams had some rot -which was controlled. I am now changing most of the deck slats in the foredeck -going tomorrow to place them, and need to sort out the beam -found some old ones in the multhull centre -will probably replace it. Your narrative of your trip hooked me up on the T31. Good to know you considered changing careers - looks like the thing to do, considering what you did.
On the main platform, had also studied Thom's solution -which seems easy and simple -something to try. Thom's route -at least without any cabin on deck) seems sensible if you want to keep the character of the boat (i.e. keep most of the deck free to move around, a sort of village, to follow Hanneke). Would you keep beam two Thom? Would you have to step over if you created some deeper wells in the platform? Your solution Paul (or yours, Hector) seems more sensible if you would like to protect yourself somehow from the weather. Haven't tried the boat yet in cold or bad weather to say anything (non sunny days are very unusual in the UK... ;-) ) so will need to find out. Nevertheless, just changing the deck has been some work. Also it has some tent covering the cockpits which are quite comfortable and well done, but probably too high, and might be better going a bit down. So probably will continue working on its current status, try to boat as it is one season or so and in cold weather, and then start seeing what to do next the coming winter.
Have found the boat is quite fast, and a blast to run. It tacks relatively easily, gybes on a dime, takes little water, and is quite good for a family -everyone can get to its own corner during the day or join in the sailing. It has loads of space,and also goes relatively high up -at least more than I was expected. I once took two families out (seemed like a floating kindergarten) and everybody happy. On the downside, don't know if it could be sailed singlehandedly, it is complex rig, and the main cabins are not that comfortable if two people sleep there (many people complaining in the morning on the sleep when the two families out). However, in good weather, cockpit seems sensible option -you sleep soundly there, tried it already. Sailing it also seems better I believe with crew. But part of what attracted me to the boat was the schoneer rig -so there you another case of the chinese curse: may your wished be granted... But I do like the view of the schooner rig, and probably can sail it alone with some improvements to the rudders (the lines to control it from cockpit are gone, and am also planning to run a line-without the attached tillers- to control it form the middle platform.
Might be useful to exchange views on how it sails and on related aspects. With the demise (or pause) of the PCA, there seems to be little space for that. Pauls comment on his boat with no second mast comes as a surprise -funny it still goes quite fast. People living in common areas could try to get together sometime. The boat seems quite capable of long runs -this one has made it to the Azores and back. I would be trying a longer trip sometime this season -everyone welcome.
Keep the posts. Will add the photos as soons as I find my camera...
José Alberto:
Nice to have you in this site. It looks as if you will be a great source of ideas and experiences for someone like me who is considering the T31 as a possible next goal. As soon as you can, share some pictures, which are always welcome.
I agree that the schooner rig is one of the main reasons to be interested in this design. I find the T31 maybe the most aesthetically pleasing of JWD's designs, mainly because of the rig.
In my drawing, the idea of leaving beam 3, would be making an enclosed case, so water can pass from one side to the other, not getting inside the cabin. On the inside, this case can be hidden between shelves or lockers.
You are right about Wharrams in our region, particularly Uruguay and Brasil.
If you want to discuss boatbuilding in Spanish, you can also join another forum I own (in http://www.navigare.com.ar), but it more basic and it´s not Wharram-oriented as this one.
Regards.
Héctor.
MAST RAKE
Posted by Thom delForge on September 12, 2010 at 10:54am in Tiki 31
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No comments? I would like to know more about the rake on the small schooner rig of the Tiki 31. Also, what perceived issues if the masts where lengthened from 24' to 27'. I getting too crotchety to keep so low. My final finishing is at hand so all final mods will be finished this year.
Hi there. my name is Thomas, im new to join the site but I have been following it all for afew months or so, on the topic of closing in the hulls if you go onto the videos posted on youtube above and look at the other videos posted by the user and there was a little glimps inside the hulls which looks interesting, almost comfatable looking :-) could be an easy convertion for a second hand tiki 31..maybe
Apologies for my long silence, but other stuff crossed my path, as always. Have been thinking lately on the enclosing bit. However, this is closely related to what you have or want as a boat, and the sort of sailing you wish to take. The boat can be sailed singlehandedly, but takes some effort to handle all the rig. It is better with someone else.
Have now taken the boat from Plymouth, where it was to Chichester. Rory McDougall was kind enough to help and bring it from there. It was quite a ride, mostly as we had not that good weather, and then we hit the race off portland bill with wind against tide, with very high (4 to 5 mts) waves and rough seas. The good news is that the boat sails very well, is fast and it surfs magnificently, even with closely staked waves, taking them on a stride, provided you handle it well. The bad news is that the boat is very wet - you get soaked in bad weather. You should have very good oilies and/or weather gear: in that case they will get wet, but you will enjoy it (mine were not that good). Now, the front cabins are vey dry: one of my children was there asleep and noticed nothing, and it never got wet. Those in the back, provided you keep the washboards in, are dry as well: otherwise, you will get wet there as well. With heavy seas, the central pod does take a lot of water coming through it. The boat can cut through the water, so to speak, as if a submarine. If you are in the cockpits, you will get water from the side, coming over the low freeboard, the inner side of the hulls, and the holes for the beams -and a lot of it. It will exit promptly. Likewide the water in the central pod (water exit is an issue to consider in a design such as Thom´s).
On good weather, the boat is vey different: the cockpits provide a shelter and a comfortable and large place to sit around and enjoy the ride. Having the tents on top of the boat makes a difference: they feel welcoming and protect you from the sun. There is no water going over the central platform, and the cockpits take some (through the inner side of each hull) but not that much. You can sail it from the cockpits, and the tent mkes you feel sheltered from the elements, being warmer and safer than steering from the tiller bar. It can provide also a place to cook an spacious albeit not a very comfortable galley. Thus, You can use one cockpit to steer and cook if you are sailing on your own.
The boat then will have two modes, so to speak. On rough seas, it has some small cocoons to protect you; in quiet ones, it is spacious and fun boat, of which the cockpits are a part. Whatever the case, the boat is safe: it does not take water; the water just comes and goes.
Now if you enclose them, you might lose the cockpit space, which is part of the equation rough time / good time equation. However, if using them as a cabin or anything else, while still still serving for a general place to stay in while sailing, a key point would be to keep them dr(ier), while still have easy access.
An option for an already built boat might be to raise both sides as in Hector´s diagram above. Initially, one could leaving the floor where it stands, and a small roof in form of a smaller tent. This would raise the inner side of the hulls -probably adding a sort of larger-ish sort of washboard entry on the inner side of the hull for ease of entry, which could be raised as needed. The small tent with transparent vinyl would raise on top. If somebody wished, you could add a washboard on both the starboard and port sides of the hulls, to go into the sea or close to it if somebody wishes, while there is good weather.
Later on, you could shift the entry to the two cabins to the inner side of the hulls, while removing the floors, and placing them lower below. A built up ply/plexiglass raisable roof with canvas on the side could work as in a tiki 31to both serve in harbour and/or when sailing. Thus the cockpits would still serve for general use - you could sail to from one, and have a wet locker and/or toilet and/or navigation table or bunk in the other.
Such an arrangement would help preserve the use of the cockpits for sailing and general use, but make them drier and better protected, and gain a bunk or two. It would leave the boat safe. Crucial for the dryness early on, and the safety later would be to devise a means to cover water entry from the beam holes on the side. But is a potentially progressive transformation. SOme belated musings, but think Manos has been thinking along these lines as well.
I know it has been a while...but I am still alive and still trying to finish the #@#^!?# boat! I am trying to figure out and mark the waterline on the hulls but there are no information or measurments in the plans. I have seen the idea with the transparent hose pipe in various blogs but from what I can understand you need some numbers provided by the designer to start with. I thought that someone of would have an idea on how to do it or, even better, could provide me with some measuments from a finished Tiki 31. Thanks in advance,
I will try and post later today or tomorrow. If I were you I would bring your line up about 6" taller than the actual water line. I will be raising mine next month.
Manos : ref waterline marking I have sketched mine out on one of the hulls with a laser level having firstly done proportional measurements from photos of other Tiki 31s, but mostly of Phil le Maitre's boat which I knew reasonably well, which was built to plans with similar material and loading. Water levels (ie the builder's tube level from the old days) are are alright but a lot more work to do this with.
Don't worry about how long it has taken to build your boat, you haven't a chance of beating my record (also of roadmiles covered and seapassages before launch)!
I don't know if you have estimated the weight of your hulls but I guess they will be above the estimated weight of the hulls as stated on the plans when I bought them (think circa 1989). I think that was underestimated, but maybe Wharrams have updated the weight since then. But I guess fir-ply would be lighter than my hulls for example.
I think I would use that if I had another life to build another boat in my formerly non-existent spare time....rough, light, with a sell by date.
Laser levels are useful! With proportional measurements from photos of boats built from similar material.
Thanks for the reply. I am also now focusing on gathering information from photos of other TIKI 31s. I have turned the second hull upside down and I have almost finished glassing it. I then intend to turn it straight again, make sure it is level and draw the waterline in approximation, taking into account the larger weight of the hulls as you also have noticed. I believe mine must be around 500 kg each (added material for enclosing the central cockpits haven't added more than 50-60 kg to the weight of each hull)......As for the record of road miles...I am not sure who is holding it, but I hope we both brake it on sea miles eventually!
Paul Lawton
There are many examples of variations on the design - like Lookfar in Vancouver.
Why doesn't mine go upwind well - Wharram says it was the best upwind design!
Anyway let me know your thoughts.
Paul
Feb 2, 2009
Thom delForge
I need a little help with mast rake -- I am not clear as to the benefits of greater angle -- I am about 5' on the TIKI 38 I have read other builders with as much as 9' fore mast and 7' main.
I have been self taught on all aspects -- therefore much of my discoveries could use a dose of experience. This project will be going on this spring in New Bern, North Carolina -- anyone wishing to help, observe, etc. will be welcome -- I have plenty of space and grill a pretty mean salmon -- and always cold beer in the cooler.
ciao,
Thom -- AKA 'TIKI THOM'
Feb 20, 2009
Thom delForge
TD
Feb 20, 2009
Paul Lawton
These are some pretty significant changes, I look forward to watching your progress. On mast rake I agree that I'm not sure why so much rake is used. Mine is definitely over-raked which produces a lot of weather helm and the top of the aft mast is in line with the attachment of the rear shrouds, which lead to mast wobble and beam twist - definitely needs addressing.
I saw a picture of you boat, she looks really well looked after. I'd love to find out more about your wheel steering, is it much better than the tiller bar?
What engine are you using? What is its fuel consumption and best speed?
Thanks
Paul
Feb 21, 2009
Thom delForge
My power choice is a 9.9 Yamaha electric start long shaft. I remember averaging about 3/4 gal per hour @ an average of 5+ knots. I have powered up to 7+ knots at full throttle. That was an eight day motor up the ICW (tidal). My new 'Kort Nozzle' should improve the performance. I originally used the planed motor box -- then changed to a Gerlick vertical drop unit; however, I plan to go back to the original with a articulated hinge that will allow an additional 5 inches of drop in the down position and then raise up to clear the water. There will be a lock mechanism to prevent the motor from pulling itself out in a 'power' reverse. I had come up with a 'bridge' in which to mount a double purchase block system to make the job of easily lowering the engine. There is still another item regarding I would like to try -- and that is attaching a control to the motor that would allow for the motor to work with the steering.
Because the 'pod' will be about 8" below the beams -- I would like to get some feedback -- I really don't want to be surfing in a 'chop'. Wharram's 'POD' for the TIKI 30 looks to be about 8" below it's beam level -- I would like to have that confirmed before I start cutting material.
My mast steps where made from an idea I found in PCA years ago by a Canadian builder named Rolly Herbich -- It consists of a S/Steel collar wleded to a flat plate with a hinged bearing between a second flat plate. To create the mast rake is a simple matter of inserting the proper shim between the two plates. I have welded locating angle to straddle the mast step beam locations.
By placing the weight bias a little more forward I hope to balance the helm -- it's not bad -- but I really have little to compare (as I have mentioned -- I am teaching myself what I can -- relying of other experienced sailors to help keep me from making too many mistakes).
I am very excited to see what the 'Kort Nozzle' effect does -- in theory it should be very good. Sea People several years back had an article with a follow up that I have never seen. I will take good notes and plenty of photos -- good or bad -- The unit I bought was from Washington state USA @ a cost of around $130 US. (Pooder Built)
http://pooderbuilt.com/Prop%20Guard%203.JPG
Thanks for starting the Tiki 31 blog and thanks to 'Budget Boaters' for the site and inspiration.
Feb 21, 2009
Paul Lawton
I currently have 2 18 year old Mercury 2 stroke 9.9s and find them very unrelaible and underpowered and burn too much fuel. I'd like to switch to a 9.9 4 stroke Yamaha FT (High Thrust). With the old engines I have had trouble motoring into tide and wind. I need reliability and a good kick.
The engines are mounted on those spring assisted lowering brackets mounted on Beam 4. It feels a long way down when trying to raise them and the engines are very exposed to waves and chop, which means they frequently have waves breaking over them, which can't help reliability.
I'm alsp not that keen on using 2 stroke engines in quiet idylic river extuaries with delicate ecosystems - doesn't seem to fit the Wharram ethos.
Looks like I've convinced myself to splash out on a new Yamaha - seems to be around £1,800 - do you know a cheaper way to buy them?
Cheers
Paul
Feb 25, 2009
Thom delForge
That's about it for now.
cheers,
Thom
Feb 25, 2009
Paul Lawton
One Mast is a good question and I've discussed it with Hanneke at Wharram designs. She wasn't sure but suggested positioning the single mast between beams 1 and 2 on a longitudinal strut. I'm keen to try it in order to tidy up the sail plan and also I have a feeling that the schooner rig is to weight fwd for the 31. As a result she tends to go bow down in a blow and if you get a following sea as well the stern breaks away making it hard to surf smoothly without a lot of helm. I learned this coming across the channel in a 7 (I think) with all sail down accept a small fwd main. Still reached 15 kts but had real trouble stopping her rounding up.
My sails are as you described, with straps inside and zippers on the sleeves. The zips tend to age and when I bought the boat las t year i had a lot of trouble getting them to start and slide.
I'm almost certainly going to try one mast and a reduced beam 3, allowing more accomodation to be closed in aft.
Cheers
Paul
Jun 14, 2009
Thom delForge
I believe the 'straps' issue is written somewhere -- but they are not at all complicated. Most sail makers that I had talked to understood from the get go.
Jun 15, 2009
Thom delForge
Thom
Jun 20, 2009
boatsmith
Jun 20, 2009
Thom delForge
Another idea -- we'll see how this one works -- I articulated the 'arms' of my engine 'pod' to give it added lift as well as more depth -- there is a photo for comments as well.
Any suggestions? -- I will post this on the Tiki 31 pages as well.
Jul 2, 2009
Jordan Balbresky
Aug 8, 2009
Thom delForge
ciao,
Thom
Aug 8, 2009
Manos Amanakis
I have been following the discussion on this group for a while.
I am building a Tiki 31 on the island of Crete, Greece since 2006. I chose the design on the first place because it was the larger Wharram I could afford building and the smaller scooner rigged which I liked, though the internal volume of the boat is small for its length. To solve this I desided to modify the plans by enclosing the central cockpit area on each hull, creating enough space for an enclosed toilet in one hull and a galley in the other. This requires to build beam throughs (like on the Tiki 38) for beams 2 and 3. I am thinking to build two semi-bulkheads in each hull (next to bulkheads 5 and 7), extending down to the level of the cockpit floor (cocpit floor will be build at the level the plans assign). These semi-bulkheads in combination with bulkheads 5 and 7 will form the beam throughs and also will support the cabin roof of these new enclosed compartments. The cockpit floor itself will have a central larger opening cut (instead of the two smaller hatch openings of the plans), which will leave enough space for an adult to cook or use the toilet.
Since I haven't seen these modifications in another Tiki 31, I was wondering if they will compromise the strength of the construction. I will strengthen the cockpit floor with hardwood stiffeners on longitudinal and lateral axis and there will be hardwood bearers to support the beamthroughs' floor but any other ideas or suggestions are welcome!
Sep 4, 2009
Thom delForge
cheers,
Thom
Sep 4, 2009
Manos Amanakis
Of course if I want to construct a pod like this I have to make higher masts. This is already decided since all the owners of Tiki 31's recommend it. By the way, to make the masts about 1m higher do I also have to change the position of the shroud backing pads on the top hull sides?
Sep 7, 2009
Thom delForge
ciao,
Thom
Sep 7, 2009
Manos Amanakis
I am thinking of ordering the sails for my Tiki 31 from Jeckells one of these days.
I would like to use a riffing system with the foresail, but have no idea what to look for. Any suggestions about the best value for money product are welcome.
Also people from Jeckells are claiming that I will have to use a boom with the mizzen as there is no sheeting point far enough after (If I understood that correctly). Any ideas about that?
Greetings!
Manos
Oct 25, 2009
Hector de Ezcurra
Having said this, I'll try to post a couple of very basic drawings, so you can send me your feedback, regarding ideas to enclose the (should be) open cockpits.
Best regards.
Nov 20, 2009
Thom delForge
T
Nov 20, 2009
Hector de Ezcurra
Best regards.Dec 5, 2009
Thom delForge
Thom
Dec 6, 2009
Hector de Ezcurra
Thank you!
Dec 6, 2009
Manos Amanakis
The last drawing you have posted is great! It is exactly what I have in mind for my Tiki 31, although I intend to use the one central enclosed cockpit as a galley and for storage and the other one as a toilet and wet locker. I have also made arrangements for two water tanks which will be installed under the beam troughs of beam 2 in the enclosed cockpits. The volume of these areas as I now see it is enough to move around and you have more then descent sitting headroom ( about 1,6 m above the floor I have already installed). I am still working on the idea of making a large opening over each cockpit with an expandable roof top, like on the Pahi 31, which will give me standing headroom when being at anchor. One rear cabin will host the navigation table and instruments along with the boats main electrical panel, batteries etc.
I hope I will soon be able to post some photos with my progress on all these matters but I would like to hear your comments for any adjustments, while there is still time...
Manos
Dec 19, 2009
Hector de Ezcurra
Dec 19, 2009
Manos Amanakis
Manos
Dec 19, 2009
Hector de Ezcurra
Dec 19, 2009
Jose Alberto Garibaldi
Thanks for setting up this site. Have recenty found a TIKI 31 after a long search, and many of your comments here helped me in the search, and getting decided, as well as Paul's narrative of his trip from France (his was one of the boats I tracked!). Likewise with Tom's useful photos, Manos blog and Hector's insightful musings. WIll add photos as soon as have them. Best regards to all,
Jose
Aug 4, 2010
Hector de Ezcurra
Where are you from? (I mean, because of your name.) Congratulations for your T31! As soon as you can, show us some pictures.
Héctor.
Aug 4, 2010
Paul Lawton
I started this group a while back and feel bad that I haven't added much for a while. I changed my career path a year ago and am now a full time professional sailor, doing deliveries, classroom training, and practical training.
This summer I finally managed to get my 31 back in the water after 18 mnths of sporadic maintenance. I actually spent much of the time removing bits to try and get back to the original boat.
For this season I've taken off the aft mast. One of the previous owners increased the rig height and I find I can get 10 to 12 knots easily with the main and the jib - so I'll try the single mast for a while. we had a blast down the coast of Devon and the balance seems great, much simpler rig.
Next year I'm considering cutting beam 3 to amke it just a deck beam, like on the Tiki38. I sopke to Hanneke and she thinks this would be okay. This will allow me to build in the cockpits and run the cabin all the way through to beam 4. Nervous though.
I'll post photos of my trip asap. Anyone want ot buy my 31 before I start cutting?
Cheers all, Paul Lawton
Aug 5, 2010
Jose Alberto Garibaldi
Answering questions first, come from a Peruvian and Mexican family, living in the UK since 05, but travelling around more than I should. Happy to discuss boats in Spanish anytime Hector! Noticed that there seems to be an active Wharram group around the river plate -several you tube posts, and another member -Matias Vidal, somewhere around in this website- seems to be around the brazilian coast now in a refurbished tanenui blogging from there. Have also studied your own drawings -which are magnificent. Your rationale for a 1500 hours less T38 seems sensible. The whole thing lies on beam 3 -even if left on, with three separate cabins, cabin might be rather wet, as water would come through the hole for the beam lashings. So might be the case that either you take it out (Paul's route), or you will have to create some beam throughs, or encapsulate the beams somehow to aoid water rushing in -but might be prone to getting rot. I found another alternaive: some photos of a tiki 31, which was being sold in Australia -that had sorted it out by placing beam 3 on top of the cabin, allowing for a long forward cabin. Looked like a long tiki Twenty six albeit a bit strange with the beam out of line with the others, on top of the cabin.
As you Paul, I have just been trying to improve the boat to its original state. The boat is structurally sound, but the decks slats where in bad shape, and one of the beams had some rot -which was controlled. I am now changing most of the deck slats in the foredeck -going tomorrow to place them, and need to sort out the beam -found some old ones in the multhull centre -will probably replace it. Your narrative of your trip hooked me up on the T31. Good to know you considered changing careers - looks like the thing to do, considering what you did.
On the main platform, had also studied Thom's solution -which seems easy and simple -something to try. Thom's route -at least without any cabin on deck) seems sensible if you want to keep the character of the boat (i.e. keep most of the deck free to move around, a sort of village, to follow Hanneke). Would you keep beam two Thom? Would you have to step over if you created some deeper wells in the platform? Your solution Paul (or yours, Hector) seems more sensible if you would like to protect yourself somehow from the weather. Haven't tried the boat yet in cold or bad weather to say anything (non sunny days are very unusual in the UK... ;-) ) so will need to find out. Nevertheless, just changing the deck has been some work. Also it has some tent covering the cockpits which are quite comfortable and well done, but probably too high, and might be better going a bit down. So probably will continue working on its current status, try to boat as it is one season or so and in cold weather, and then start seeing what to do next the coming winter.
Have found the boat is quite fast, and a blast to run. It tacks relatively easily, gybes on a dime, takes little water, and is quite good for a family -everyone can get to its own corner during the day or join in the sailing. It has loads of space,and also goes relatively high up -at least more than I was expected. I once took two families out (seemed like a floating kindergarten) and everybody happy. On the downside, don't know if it could be sailed singlehandedly, it is complex rig, and the main cabins are not that comfortable if two people sleep there (many people complaining in the morning on the sleep when the two families out). However, in good weather, cockpit seems sensible option -you sleep soundly there, tried it already. Sailing it also seems better I believe with crew. But part of what attracted me to the boat was the schoneer rig -so there you another case of the chinese curse: may your wished be granted... But I do like the view of the schooner rig, and probably can sail it alone with some improvements to the rudders (the lines to control it from cockpit are gone, and am also planning to run a line-without the attached tillers- to control it form the middle platform.
Might be useful to exchange views on how it sails and on related aspects. With the demise (or pause) of the PCA, there seems to be little space for that. Pauls comment on his boat with no second mast comes as a surprise -funny it still goes quite fast. People living in common areas could try to get together sometime. The boat seems quite capable of long runs -this one has made it to the Azores and back. I would be trying a longer trip sometime this season -everyone welcome.
Keep the posts. Will add the photos as soons as I find my camera...
Best regards,
Jose
Aug 6, 2010
Hector de Ezcurra
Nice to have you in this site. It looks as if you will be a great source of ideas and experiences for someone like me who is considering the T31 as a possible next goal. As soon as you can, share some pictures, which are always welcome.
I agree that the schooner rig is one of the main reasons to be interested in this design. I find the T31 maybe the most aesthetically pleasing of JWD's designs, mainly because of the rig.
In my drawing, the idea of leaving beam 3, would be making an enclosed case, so water can pass from one side to the other, not getting inside the cabin. On the inside, this case can be hidden between shelves or lockers.
You are right about Wharrams in our region, particularly Uruguay and Brasil.
If you want to discuss boatbuilding in Spanish, you can also join another forum I own (in http://www.navigare.com.ar), but it more basic and it´s not Wharram-oriented as this one.
Regards.
Héctor.
Aug 6, 2010
Thom delForge
Posted by Thom delForge on September 12, 2010 at 10:54am in Tiki 31
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No comments? I would like to know more about the rake on the small schooner rig of the Tiki 31. Also, what perceived issues if the masts where lengthened from 24' to 27'. I getting too crotchety to keep so low. My final finishing is at hand so all final mods will be finished this year.
Cheers,
Thom
Sep 12, 2010
Thom delForge
Sep 14, 2010
Hector de Ezcurra
Luis passed me these links of two nice videos of a modified Tiki 31 from Brazil (owner speaks portughese):
http://youtu.be/QT9cdYwpp2Q
http://youtu.be/GKdZSm19oY0
Enjoy.
Jun 3, 2011
Hector de Ezcurra
Another modified Tiki 31 from Brazil:
I've found these pictures of a modified T31 on a blog which I can't find again. But I kept the images:
You can watch 2 videos of this boat sailing at:
1) http://youtu.be/QT9cdYwpp2Q
2) http://youtu.be/GKdZSm19oY0
Regards.
Jul 29, 2011
Thomas Nance
Oct 19, 2011
Jose Alberto Garibaldi
Hector, all
Apologies for my long silence, but other stuff crossed my path, as always. Have been thinking lately on the enclosing bit. However, this is closely related to what you have or want as a boat, and the sort of sailing you wish to take. The boat can be sailed singlehandedly, but takes some effort to handle all the rig. It is better with someone else.
Have now taken the boat from Plymouth, where it was to Chichester. Rory McDougall was kind enough to help and bring it from there. It was quite a ride, mostly as we had not that good weather, and then we hit the race off portland bill with wind against tide, with very high (4 to 5 mts) waves and rough seas. The good news is that the boat sails very well, is fast and it surfs magnificently, even with closely staked waves, taking them on a stride, provided you handle it well. The bad news is that the boat is very wet - you get soaked in bad weather. You should have very good oilies and/or weather gear: in that case they will get wet, but you will enjoy it (mine were not that good). Now, the front cabins are vey dry: one of my children was there asleep and noticed nothing, and it never got wet. Those in the back, provided you keep the washboards in, are dry as well: otherwise, you will get wet there as well. With heavy seas, the central pod does take a lot of water coming through it. The boat can cut through the water, so to speak, as if a submarine. If you are in the cockpits, you will get water from the side, coming over the low freeboard, the inner side of the hulls, and the holes for the beams -and a lot of it. It will exit promptly. Likewide the water in the central pod (water exit is an issue to consider in a design such as Thom´s).
On good weather, the boat is vey different: the cockpits provide a shelter and a comfortable and large place to sit around and enjoy the ride. Having the tents on top of the boat makes a difference: they feel welcoming and protect you from the sun. There is no water going over the central platform, and the cockpits take some (through the inner side of each hull) but not that much. You can sail it from the cockpits, and the tent mkes you feel sheltered from the elements, being warmer and safer than steering from the tiller bar. It can provide also a place to cook an spacious albeit not a very comfortable galley. Thus, You can use one cockpit to steer and cook if you are sailing on your own.
The boat then will have two modes, so to speak. On rough seas, it has some small cocoons to protect you; in quiet ones, it is spacious and fun boat, of which the cockpits are a part. Whatever the case, the boat is safe: it does not take water; the water just comes and goes.
Now if you enclose them, you might lose the cockpit space, which is part of the equation rough time / good time equation. However, if using them as a cabin or anything else, while still still serving for a general place to stay in while sailing, a key point would be to keep them dr(ier), while still have easy access.
An option for an already built boat might be to raise both sides as in Hector´s diagram above. Initially, one could leaving the floor where it stands, and a small roof in form of a smaller tent. This would raise the inner side of the hulls -probably adding a sort of larger-ish sort of washboard entry on the inner side of the hull for ease of entry, which could be raised as needed. The small tent with transparent vinyl would raise on top. If somebody wished, you could add a washboard on both the starboard and port sides of the hulls, to go into the sea or close to it if somebody wishes, while there is good weather.
Later on, you could shift the entry to the two cabins to the inner side of the hulls, while removing the floors, and placing them lower below. A built up ply/plexiglass raisable roof with canvas on the side could work as in a tiki 31to both serve in harbour and/or when sailing. Thus the cockpits would still serve for general use - you could sail to from one, and have a wet locker and/or toilet and/or navigation table or bunk in the other.
Such an arrangement would help preserve the use of the cockpits for sailing and general use, but make them drier and better protected, and gain a bunk or two. It would leave the boat safe. Crucial for the dryness early on, and the safety later would be to devise a means to cover water entry from the beam holes on the side. But is a potentially progressive transformation. SOme belated musings, but think Manos has been thinking along these lines as well.
Best regards and luck with the Woods,
Jose A.
Jan 7, 2012
Jose Alberto Garibaldi
This is the web from where the photos comes from, I think.
http://policat-marcosvela.blogspot.com/2011/05/carreta-para-um-tiki...
There is a view of the inside here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKJD8P0GQQ4&list=UUODLjwG-Rl0Nfk...
Jan 7, 2012
Jose Alberto Garibaldi
And some more here
http://freeboat.com.br/classifieds/detail.php?id=3514&catid=60
Jan 7, 2012
Manos Amanakis
Hello all,
I know it has been a while...but I am still alive and still trying to finish the #@#^!?# boat! I am trying to figure out and mark the waterline on the hulls but there are no information or measurments in the plans. I have seen the idea with the transparent hose pipe in various blogs but from what I can understand you need some numbers provided by the designer to start with. I thought that someone of would have an idea on how to do it or, even better, could provide me with some measuments from a finished Tiki 31. Thanks in advance,
Manos
Nov 11, 2013
Thom delForge
I will try and post later today or tomorrow. If I were you I would bring your line up about 6" taller than the actual water line. I will be raising mine next month.
Nov 11, 2013
Manos Amanakis
I am looking forward to reading your comments, thanks Thom.
Manos
Nov 12, 2013
Ian
Manos : ref waterline marking I have sketched mine out on one of the hulls with a laser level having firstly done proportional measurements from photos of other Tiki 31s, but mostly of Phil le Maitre's boat which I knew reasonably well, which was built to plans with similar material and loading. Water levels (ie the builder's tube level from the old days) are are alright but a lot more work to do this with.
Don't worry about how long it has taken to build your boat, you haven't a chance of beating my record (also of roadmiles covered and seapassages before launch)!
I don't know if you have estimated the weight of your hulls but I guess they will be above the estimated weight of the hulls as stated on the plans when I bought them (think circa 1989). I think that was underestimated, but maybe Wharrams have updated the weight since then. But I guess fir-ply would be lighter than my hulls for example.
I think I would use that if I had another life to build another boat in my formerly non-existent spare time....rough, light, with a sell by date.
Laser levels are useful! With proportional measurements from photos of boats built from similar material.
Nov 17, 2013
Manos Amanakis
Hello Ian,
Thanks for the reply. I am also now focusing on gathering information from photos of other TIKI 31s. I have turned the second hull upside down and I have almost finished glassing it. I then intend to turn it straight again, make sure it is level and draw the waterline in approximation, taking into account the larger weight of the hulls as you also have noticed. I believe mine must be around 500 kg each (added material for enclosing the central cockpits haven't added more than 50-60 kg to the weight of each hull)......As for the record of road miles...I am not sure who is holding it, but I hope we both brake it on sea miles eventually!
By the way, your boat is beautiful!
Nov 18, 2013