outrigger sailing canoes..

[Joshua del Mar]

Hi All,

Im looking at building a tiki 21 this year but before i do i thought i'd build an outrigger sailing canoe to get a feel for the building process... As i've never built anything before, the whole concept of stitch and glue is new to me and rather than get lost in a big project, a small one seems to be the way to go first...

Anyway, Im curious if anyone has built one before? At present Im looking at Wharram's "Melanesia" and Gary Dierkings "Wa'a". Wondering if anyone has any information, opinions or experiences they would like to share about the designs, the process and the sailing of them!

Many thanks,
Josh :o)

[Hector de Ezcurra]

Josh:
Welcome to the forum. It sounds like a good idea to start with a smaller proyect, before the Tiki 21, but a sailing canoe is not much smaller and simpler than the Tiki 21. I've built Gary Dierking´s "T2 proa" , but frankly, if I could go backwards in time, I would build a tacking outrigger canoe, for practicity in sailing in a river like mine, where you need to tack often. Wa'apa or Tamanu could be good training platforms, but something smaller, like a dinghy or dolly could do too, being enough to practice your skills with the "stitch and glue" techniques, and you would be closer to start with your Tiki 21. Just my thought.
Best regards.
Héctor.

[Carl]

Hi Josh,

I agree with Hector. Build yourself a dingy - something small enough that you can use when the Tiki 21 is built. There are numerous stitch and glue designs out there- some plans even free of charge. This will give you the necessary skills to work with epoxy, fillets etc.
Good luck with the build. Keep us up to date with your progress.

Carl

[Tom]

Will the proa be the tender to the Tiki?

Having two boats to maintain is a pain in the ass, especially when they are both made out of wood.

But if the lesser is the tender to the greater, it doesn't seem so bad. So why not practice on your skiff before building your Tiki?

Personally, I'd just go ahead and build the Tiki...assuming that that is your end goal. Stitch and glue is a very simple process.
(When pulling the wire after the epoxy has set, be careful that your needle nosed pliers doesn't leap into your nasal cavity. It really hurts.)

As far as experiences and opinions with the designs go, I've never built a Tiki. I am building a Pahi. If we assume a similarity across plans, then I would say multiply the designer's time estimate by at least 10, quadruple your corresponding cost estimate, and expect frequent frustration from numerous discrepancies/errors in the plans.

Really though, it's a fun process and will keep you out of the bar in your free time...maybe.

Welcome to the forum, mate!

[Ralf]

Hi Josh,

Welcome to the forum. I am building a Tiki 30 (70% done) and I have never built a boat before. It is not a problem if you are reasonably handy with tools. You could do a few test runs on some scrap plywood with the epoxy, making fillets and test them to break. They should break in the wood not in the fillet.

One thing I do recommend before building is to get the 'Epoxy Bible' (The Gougeon Brothers on Boat Construction by Meade Gougeon). Read it from the first to the last page and you will know everything about epoxy work. These folks have invented this way of boat building. They write about West System Epoxy but it works for all brands.

The Wharram plans are very good and give more details than I have seen anywhere else on boat plans. Considering how much work it is to build any boat I would go for the boat that I really want and nothing else. For a Tiki 21 you do not really need a tender/dinghy. A 21 is certainly not too big for a first time building project. It is a fine experience if you enjoy building things. Please keep us updated.

Best
Ralf

[Joshua del Mar]

Wow guys!

Thanks for the replies and the info!

Hector & Carl: It does sound like a good idea to build a small dinghy to start with as a simple way to learn the process.. At the same time, I wouldn't mind having something to play around in while the tiki is being built.. And the outriggers look so beautiful... Are they really so close in time and effort of construction that i would be wasting my time? Gary seems to think that a wa'apa can be built in around 160 hours..

Tom: Thanks for the tip about the needle nose pliers... Ill be sure to take extra care.. Do you know where I can get a good nose guard? (hehehe)

Ralf: Thank you for pointing me in the direction of the Gougeon Brother book! Im sure it will help a lot as i have no experience in building anything at all..

Thanks for the warm welcome!
Josh

[Rodney Swann]

If you are determined to build something else first. Google "Cheap canoe". That is the most simple stitch and glue boat that I am aware of. Or if you want to build a small sailing dingy, as has been suggested. I would recommend googling "duckworks", go to "plans", click on Jim Mcalek (sp?) and check out the Mayfly 12, Mayfly 14 and Mayfly 16. Those are some pretty simple dinghies.

Good luck!

[Liz at James Wharram Designs]

Hi. Liz Wood here from JWD office. Yes, a crab claw sail can easily be fitted to the T21 and we do now sell a rig conversion package for this. It costs GBPounds 80.00 plus p&p and VAT. So... now you all know!

[John Galilee]

I bought my Melanesia second hand but its clearly built using the same techniques as bigger wharrams. The main reason why you should build one though is because sailing it will put a huge smile on your face!

[Joshua del Mar]

Hi John,
Thanks for the reply. How do you find its performance? Ive got gary's book which has a lot of info on his designs, but haven't read or seen too much about the Melanesia... Have you got any photos???
Josh :o)

[Joshua del Mar]

Hi Rod,
Thanks for the links... Will check them out! Josh :o)

Rodney Swann said:

If you are determined to build something else first. Google "Cheap canoe". That is the most simple stitch and glue boat that I am aware of. Or if you want to build a small sailing dingy, as has been suggested. I would recommend googling "duckworks", go to "plans", click on Jim Mcalek (sp?) and check out the Mayfly 12, Mayfly 14 and Mayfly 16. Those are some pretty simple dinghies.

Good luck!

[Kevin Hutchinson]

Hello, I have a melanesia . I made several modification from plans.

The ama needs to have much more flotation. If you don't the ama will bury whens its to leeward causing lots of drag. Make it like a half a trimaran. Build a rudder and life will be much easier. Deck over the entire main hull. I did not do this so I must always slow down in waves or I take aboard buckets of water. Crab claws sails suck !! I know I sailed mine with one for over a year. Build a burmuda sail or get a used windsurfer rig. I hope to post my boats story shortly...Kevin

[Joshua del Mar]

Hi Kevin,
Thanks for the great pics! She's beautiful.... How long did it take you to build? I checked out your website too.. Great artwork! Cheers, Josh.



Kevin Hutchinson said:

Hello, I have a melanesia . I made several modification from plans.

The ama needs to have much more flotation. If you don't the ama will bury whens its to leeward causing lots of drag. Make it like a half a trimaran. Build a rudder and life will be much easier. Deck over the entire main hull. I did not do this so I must always slow down in waves or I take aboard buckets of water. Crab claws sails suck !! I know I sailed mine with one for over a year. Build a burmuda sail or get a used windsurfer rig. I hope to post my boats story shortly...Kevin