Tangaroa Wingsail Schooner & Sloop pros & cons?

[Allen Bosely]

On a Tangaroa Mk 4 with the Wingsail, what are the pros and cons or advantages and disadvantages of the Schooner and Sloop rigs?

Maybe the Sloop can sail closer to the wind? The Schooner can be balanced better/easier, smaller sails so easier to handle, shorter masts so less leverage trying to capsize with sails up and big gust hits? These are questions, not statements. Just trying to understand the different characteristics of the Schooner and Sloop Wingsail on the Tangaroa in particular. Don't know if the characteristics would be the same on a smaller or bigger Wharram.

Cheers, Allen

[Brett Parker]

Hi Allan

Think you are pretty on to it re the schooner rig. Not sure it will sail closer to the wind than the tiki sloop- would be interested to hear what others think about that..... On my T 38 I really enjoy the schooner rig. I love that the sails are small and easy to reef. Its a good cruising rig. I think the advantages outweigh the disadvantages. One being the extra windage of an extra mast with its rigging. The other day I had to beat into 45 knots. I had 3 reefs in the mains, a reefed headsail and I had one motor just ticking over to get me in! I noticed as soon as the wind dropped to 30-40 she sailed faster . Above this the speed advantage from the extra wind speed was over come by the windage . It was a little frustrating, however I am still very happy with it.

[dennis schneider]

Hi Allan, I built and sailed a Tangaroa Mk 1 for 2 yrs in all kinds of conditions; it had a ketch rig, which had these characteristics: PRO; it balanced very well, and would tack quickly in all conditions (rudders got a lot of extra fairing attention); in storm conditions I just dropped the main, and had great manoverability and steerageway under yankee/staysail and mizzen. CON: a lot of rigging and extra expense; not very close to the wind (about 130degrees between tacks). Poor performer in light airs. Fazit: it was the right rig for a novice husband/wife duo - we got our worst storm within 3 days of leaving port in the North Sea, and it lasted 5 days; our conservative sail configuration allowed us to handle the conditions without incident. BUT, it is a poor performer in light winds. Now I would definitely use a sloop or cutter rig(depending on your sail area winds), with about a 43 ft mast. and a 3-point stay/shroud setup. Mainsail area about 400 sq ft. Lashings, not turnbuckles.  And, if you are actually building the Classic Tangaroa - with metal angle iron & threaded rods - I can say that ours worked perfectly..

[dennis schneider]

Hi again Allan;; I see that I did not address your preference for a schooner rig. I have no experience with a schooner rig, but I have read that the aft mast/sail doesnt draw very well on a beat or close reach; that is why the ketch was given as the option to the cutter: since the aft sail doesnt draw well, reduce it and use the mizzen mainly to adjust balance (ie, weather/lee helm)...A schooner rig seems more practical on a large boat with a longer deck, where there could be an apprecible distance between masts, so less turbulence.

ps: did you read the discussion from June 18, 2009; "New Rig", very informative, I thought... 

[Rogerio Martin]

Brett, in 45 knots you are in "survival navigation" or in secure navigation, don't need more speed . Take care with your boat, man.

Brett Parker said:

oi Allan

Acho que você é muito para ele re o equipamento escuna. Não tenho certeza que vai navegar mais perto do vento do que o sloop- tiki estaria interessado em ouvir o que os outros pensam sobre isso ..... No meu T 38 Gosto muito de o equipamento escuna. Eu amo que as velas são pequenos e fáceis de recife. É uma boa plataforma de cruzeiro. Eu acho que as vantagens superam as desvantagens. Sendo um deles o windage extra de um mastro de extra com o seu equipamento. No outro dia eu tive que bater em 45 nós. Eu tinha 3 recifes em corrente eléctrica, uma vela de proa reefed e eu tinha um motor apenas mais típico para me in! Notei logo que o vento caiu para 30-40 navegou mais rápido. Acima desse a vantagem da velocidade da velocidade do vento extra foi mais de vir pela windage. Foi um pouco frustrante, no entanto eu ainda estou muito feliz com isso.

[Brett Parker]

Hi Rogerio

  A little more speed would have been good to help to punch through it a bit better but not too much! My point was that after a certain wind speed the windage of the boat is a dominating  factor. I definitely want to be taking it slowly in those conditions.  They are still great boats.

[Rogerio Martin]

Yes, my tiki 30 Works
much better in 15 knots then 20+