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sailing differences between wharram design styles

Hiyas!

A general and possibly a silly sounding question.

Looking at the various designs, from Pahi 26, Tiki 26, to Tiki 30 and 38, Pahi 42, various tangaroa and narai - there are evident differences ofcourse. However, it is hard to tell how these differences translate to actual sailing experiences.

eg,

tacking abilities, speed, angles to the wind (specially close reach), storm performance and so on..

I am trying to piece together some coherent idea of how these differences work via reading a fair few posts. However all that comes seems to be vague references to the questions i have in mind.

Understandably too. Not complaining ;)

Hard to think i am the only person with these kind of questions.

Is there anywhere with some clear, possibly some kind of a graphic/chart explaining the differences?

In case there is no such information, perhaps anyone here has an idea about the differences?

Cheers and many thanks in advance!

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No one experienced or has views about performance differences between wharram designs?

People will have experience of their own type of Wharram, and possibly one or two others, but a lot of it will be subjective.  Very few for instance will have storm experience on more than one...

The main thing I've learned, based on experience of the Tiki 26 and the Pahi 52, is that performance to windward in comparison with multihulls is better than a lot of people think it is.  Other than that, the most important thing is to learn how to sail your particular boat, for instance tacking technique, how to trim (sails, rig and hulls), how close to the wind to sail without killing progress, etc.  The way the boats perform is largely down to the way they are sailed, how they're loaded, and things like the condition of the sails, more so than any differences between the designs.

The question reminds me of when someone asked "what is the most important item of safety equipment to have on a boat?"  The answer is "a good skipper"...


Hi.

Thanks for the reply.

Are you saying that when it comes to Wharram designs, the differences are basically cosmetic?

ie

so long as the skipper is able enough, she can make any of them behave the same?

Cheers!


Robert Hughes said:

People will have experience of their own type of Wharram, and possibly one or two others, but a lot of it will be subjective.  Very few for instance will have storm experience on more than one...

The main thing I've learned, based on experience of the Tiki 26 and the Pahi 52, is that performance to windward in comparison with multihulls is better than a lot of people think it is.  Other than that, the most important thing is to learn how to sail your particular boat, for instance tacking technique, how to trim (sails, rig and hulls), how close to the wind to sail without killing progress, etc.  The way the boats perform is largely down to the way they are sailed, how they're loaded, and things like the condition of the sails, more so than any differences between the designs.

The question reminds me of when someone asked "what is the most important item of safety equipment to have on a boat?"  The answer is "a good skipper"...

No that's not what I'm saying.  If you took different JW designs where the major factors such as waterline length are similar, loaded them to similar displacement, and set similar sail areas in similar conditions there would be differences in performance.  However, diffenences such as new vs old worn out sails, rigging setup, sail trim, weight distribution, and knowledge of how to get the best out of each boat are likely to affect performance more than differences in hull form between classics, pahi's and tiki's.

I see.

Thanks for the clarification :)

The question is, baring in mind the variations between the elements you mention(), are there general tendencies that certain JW designs are more amenable to?

eg, my guess is that narrower hulls like a raka would likely tend to move fast on water. Or that maybe narai tends to get more windage than pahi. all these do not mean they can not be mitigated un various ways.

(refering to your list of performance affecting elements like sails age/state, etc..)

Cheers!

Robert Hughes said:

No that's not what I'm saying.  If you took different JW designs where the major factors such as waterline length are similar, loaded them to similar displacement, and set similar sail areas in similar conditions there would be differences in performance.  However, diffenences such as new vs old worn out sails, rigging setup, sail trim, weight distribution, and knowledge of how to get the best out of each boat are likely to affect performance more than differences in hull form between classics, pahi's and tiki's.

As Robert is saying, the variables are so wide that the question will only get very general answers! For example, our Pahi 42 has the Bermudan cutter rig with fully battened mainsail and conventional boom. Our genoa is a fairy new Jeckells roller-furling sail, and excellent. With this setup we can sail upwind pretty well once we get in a groove, but tacking is still like a tall-ship! A pahi with a crab claw or twin wing sail setup will perform very differently, and on certain points of sail might be better. As each Wharram boat has been individually built, both the quality of the build and the deck layout will vary, and all these things affect sailing performance. 

Interesting indeed. cheers!

just bumped into:

https://www.wharram.com/forum/design-specific-boards/pahi-designs/p...

Check the quote from steve turner re 21-31ft pahis & tikis + wingsail rigs..

Cheers!

Andy Best-Dunkley said:

As Robert is saying, the variables are so wide that the question will only get very general answers! For example, our Pahi 42 has the Bermudan cutter rig with fully battened mainsail and conventional boom. Our genoa is a fairy new Jeckells roller-furling sail, and excellent. With this setup we can sail upwind pretty well once we get in a groove, but tacking is still like a tall-ship! A pahi with a crab claw or twin wing sail setup will perform very differently, and on certain points of sail might be better. As each Wharram boat has been individually built, both the quality of the build and the deck layout will vary, and all these things affect sailing performance. 

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