The net is folded over itself, and has two rows of continuous half-hitches that secure the boltrope; the boltrope itself should be half-hitched to the net itself at some point as this will make the net more stable.
The half-hitching was done with Samson's "Lash-It," also a dyneema product: 400lb load rating.
Nice work Kim,I have bought some knotless netting too,mine is black but not dyneema. I like the fact that there are no dodgy eyelets to rely on but that you are knotting directly to the net hisself.
They are on Bainbridge Island in Puget Sound, and sell mostly to the trawler companies. They recognize the multihull market though. The net is sold by the pound, and I measured from the center line of the hulls, beam to beam. That amount of net was $300. I bought two rolls of Lash-It, but basically only used one for the half-hitching: great stuff to have on hand though. A length of 3/8" dyneema finished off the materials. Roughly $425 for materials.
Most dyneema is treated with a uv-blocker to extend its lifespan, but as with most things, if the net is covered when not being used, it will live longer. Here is a pdf file on trawler netting that has some info on wear and uv resistance of common netting materials Fishing Nets
I reversed the flat-webbing tramp on Vaea's bows this season for this reason. The webbing tramp, 7-8 years ago, from Sunrise Yacht Products in Florida, cost the previous owner a bit over $600
Once again, I'll probably be following your lead, Kim. That's certainly not cheap, but I know it's strong and I like the open netting better than any tramp material. It's also great that grommets are not needed, as they always seem to tear out on these tramps. I've changed my mind on the slat deck up front and gone to a central catwalk instead. I'll have netting on both sides of that, and in the stern on both sides of the ladder support rails.
Hey Scott,I was going to go with a central slatted catwalk myself,actually I had built one but the idea that it could be a wave catcher up front got me me to thinking maybe I could do without it.
Paul, mine is small and definitely lighter weight than the deck I started with (sold that one already to another T26 owner). With 1-inch gaps between the planks I don't think it will hold much water, especially with nets on either side instead of tramps. I think it will be handy for handing the anchor, cleaning fish, etc. By the way, what kind of knotless netting is that you went with? I might be able to live with something a bit less pricy than that dyneema!
The Net Systems web site does say this:"Ultra Cross netting is available in high-tenacity polyethylene, Dyneema®, and nylon." I have no idea of the cost of the polyethylene or nylon knotless net unfortunately.
This is very interesting. I just followed the latest rope tests comparing knots and bends in dyneema. braided and 'normal' polyester. Only splices deliver a good strength. Otherwise there is nothing to connect dyneema with a strength of more than about 30%. Knotless connections amount to a bend, which is notoriously weak. Knot strength in polyester is much higher (but only with the correct knot). In the end the result with polyester is the same as with dyneema, as the weakest link is in the know or bend. As I am lashing a lot on Phefo, I am faced with the same dilemma. As an example. If you have a 3 ton dyneema rope, the knot will break at 1 ton, and the connection should not be exposed to more than 200 - 300 kg load. On the other hand, a proper splice will hold 2,4 tons, but it might be difficult to apply. If you loop 2 splices together, then you are again down to a breaking strength of 1 ton. So what is the solution?
"...meet Hampidjan's recomended minimum 5/1 bending ratio for Dynex Dux. This is essential for long term durabilty of Heat Stretched, Dynex Dux, UHMWPE line as the work hardening makes the line much stiffer and tight bending radii cause compressive stresses that weaken the line considerably."
The regular, that is, non-heat stretched dyneema, has much less of a tendency to work-harden than dux, but the 5:1 radius guidelines will insure the strength of the line is maintained.
With dyneema or dux, the strength of the line is normally so much stronger than anything else that, with a little care, you should be fine. The line is very slippery, so you do have to use different stopper knots:
kim whitmyre
The net is folded over itself, and has two rows of continuous half-hitches that secure the boltrope; the boltrope itself should be half-hitched to the net itself at some point as this will make the net more stable.
The half-hitching was done with Samson's "Lash-It," also a dyneema product: 400lb load rating.
May 30, 2012
Scott Williams
Looks like a good alternative to trampolines. What is the cost of the dyneema netting and do you have any idea of its lifespan in full U.V. exposure?
May 30, 2012
paul anderson
Nice work Kim,I have bought some knotless netting too,mine is black but not dyneema. I like the fact that there are no dodgy eyelets to rely on but that you are knotting directly to the net hisself.
May 30, 2012
kim whitmyre
I got the "Ultra-Cross Silver Knotless Netting," that's a mouthful, from here:
Net Systems
They are on Bainbridge Island in Puget Sound, and sell mostly to the trawler companies. They recognize the multihull market though. The net is sold by the pound, and I measured from the center line of the hulls, beam to beam. That amount of net was $300. I bought two rolls of Lash-It, but basically only used one for the half-hitching: great stuff to have on hand though. A length of 3/8" dyneema finished off the materials. Roughly $425 for materials.
Most dyneema is treated with a uv-blocker to extend its lifespan, but as with most things, if the net is covered when not being used, it will live longer. Here is a pdf file on trawler netting that has some info on wear and uv resistance of common netting materials Fishing Nets
I reversed the flat-webbing tramp on Vaea's bows this season for this reason. The webbing tramp, 7-8 years ago, from Sunrise Yacht Products in Florida, cost the previous owner a bit over $600
May 30, 2012
Scott Williams
Once again, I'll probably be following your lead, Kim. That's certainly not cheap, but I know it's strong and I like the open netting better than any tramp material. It's also great that grommets are not needed, as they always seem to tear out on these tramps. I've changed my mind on the slat deck up front and gone to a central catwalk instead. I'll have netting on both sides of that, and in the stern on both sides of the ladder support rails.
May 31, 2012
paul anderson
Hey Scott,I was going to go with a central slatted catwalk myself,actually I had built one but the idea that it could be a wave catcher up front got me me to thinking maybe I could do without it.
May 31, 2012
Scott Williams
Paul, mine is small and definitely lighter weight than the deck I started with (sold that one already to another T26 owner). With 1-inch gaps between the planks I don't think it will hold much water, especially with nets on either side instead of tramps. I think it will be handy for handing the anchor, cleaning fish, etc. By the way, what kind of knotless netting is that you went with? I might be able to live with something a bit less pricy than that dyneema!
May 31, 2012
paul anderson
Scott,the netting is Diamond mesh 250 ply knotless netting from a mob at www.haverford.com.au It sure is strong.
May 31, 2012
paul anderson
I may attach a catwalk over the top of the whole net once I figured out how to sail her...
May 31, 2012
Scott Williams
Thanks Paul, I'll check that link out. I'll post pics of my new catwalk soon. Working on the cockpit seats right now.
May 31, 2012
kim whitmyre
The Net Systems web site does say this:"Ultra Cross netting is available in high-tenacity polyethylene,
Dyneema®, and nylon." I have no idea of the cost of the polyethylene or nylon knotless net unfortunately.
May 31, 2012
Hans Hammig
This is very interesting. I just followed the latest rope tests comparing knots and bends in dyneema. braided and 'normal' polyester. Only splices deliver a good strength. Otherwise there is nothing to connect dyneema with a strength of more than about 30%. Knotless connections amount to a bend, which is notoriously weak. Knot strength in polyester is much higher (but only with the correct knot). In the end the result with polyester is the same as with dyneema, as the weakest link is in the know or bend. As I am lashing a lot on Phefo, I am faced with the same dilemma. As an example. If you have a 3 ton dyneema rope, the knot will break at 1 ton, and the connection should not be exposed to more than 200 - 300 kg load. On the other hand, a proper splice will hold 2,4 tons, but it might be difficult to apply. If you loop 2 splices together, then you are again down to a breaking strength of 1 ton. So what is the solution?
Jun 11, 2012
kim whitmyre
Hans, here is a comment from Colligo Synthetic Systems :
"...meet Hampidjan's recomended minimum 5/1 bending ratio for Dynex Dux. This is essential for long term durabilty of Heat Stretched, Dynex Dux, UHMWPE line as the work hardening makes the line much stiffer and tight bending radii cause compressive stresses that weaken the line considerably."
The regular, that is, non-heat stretched dyneema, has much less of a tendency to work-harden than dux, but the 5:1 radius guidelines will insure the strength of the line is maintained.
With dyneema or dux, the strength of the line is normally so much stronger than anything else that, with a little care, you should be fine. The line is very slippery, so you do have to use different stopper knots:
stopper knot for dyneema
And here is a good lashing method:
lashing using dyneema
Jun 11, 2012
kim whitmyre
The knotless connections in the netting are actually a form of crocheting, which allows the individual strands to remain straight.
Jun 11, 2012
paul anderson
Kim you are a legend.
Jun 11, 2012
Hans Hammig
Thanks, Kim. I have saved the file with the 'double-eight' stopper knot. You are a star!
Jun 13, 2012
kim whitmyre
Just a geeky gearhead, actually... ;-)
Jun 13, 2012
Roger
Hi Kim,
How is your new net construction holding up to use? My front net is failing and I have to do something soon.
Roger
Dec 19, 2012