Want to buy a Wharram... how to avoid unnecessarily hiring a surveyor? - Wharram Builders and Friends2024-03-29T05:18:00Zhttps://wharrambuilders.ning.com/forum/topics/want-to-buy-a-wharram-how-to-avoid-unnecessarily-hiring-a?x=1&id=2195841%3ATopic%3A105526&feed=yes&xn_auth=noHi,
it's taken a long time a…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2016-09-20:2195841:Comment:1452372016-09-20T00:40:41.119ZJordihttps://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/Jordi
<p>Hi,</p>
<p></p>
<p>it's taken a long time and some down-sizing, but I'm now the proud owner of a Tiki 30. I want to thank everyone participating in this thread: your recommendations were key to giving me the confidence needed to move through the purchase process.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Thank you!</p>
<p>Hi,</p>
<p></p>
<p>it's taken a long time and some down-sizing, but I'm now the proud owner of a Tiki 30. I want to thank everyone participating in this thread: your recommendations were key to giving me the confidence needed to move through the purchase process.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Thank you!</p> Raf,
Our rudder rope hinge…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2013-08-27:2195841:Comment:1057362013-08-27T13:21:51.798ZAnn and Neville Clementhttps://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/AnnandNevilleClement922
<p>Raf,</p>
<p> Our rudder rope hinges have gone for over 10 years and we see no rot yet. They are the original ropes. When we drilled the holes as per plan, Nev and I eased the openings of each little hole and then I used a lot of epoxy coating inside the holes and came back again and again to add more and more epoxy. As soon as one coat was just beyond being sticky, I added another coat while it was still soft and so it built up and up. The ropes enter the holes and are fixed in…</p>
<p>Raf,</p>
<p> Our rudder rope hinges have gone for over 10 years and we see no rot yet. They are the original ropes. When we drilled the holes as per plan, Nev and I eased the openings of each little hole and then I used a lot of epoxy coating inside the holes and came back again and again to add more and more epoxy. As soon as one coat was just beyond being sticky, I added another coat while it was still soft and so it built up and up. The ropes enter the holes and are fixed in place and closed and faired using 5200 on Peace IV. We have used antifoul paint right on the ropes at and below the water line and we have pushed the brush all around those hinge areas carefully each time we paint the bottom. We have almost 50,000 miles on the boat so far and see no problems with the method so long as it is built with care as with everything else. Just follow the plans and do your best work. A well built Wharram is a wonderful boat. Epoxy and fiberglass applied with care prevent rot.</p>
<p>Ann and Nev</p> None taken,
The twin pin moi…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2013-08-27:2195841:Comment:1057302013-08-27T07:44:04.350ZGeminidawnhttps://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/Geminidawn
<p><br></br> None taken,</p>
<p>The twin pin moisture meters are a bit out dated and can only read as far as the pins can go, they're also invasive. The Tramex has two electrodes that sends a signal into the wood the higher the moisture content the higher the signal that is returned.</p>
<p>Yes I am a Lloyd's Qualified Surveyor but I'm also a formally qualified Boat Building Instructor and there is nothing that's as voracious as the rot and invasive pests we get here in the tropics. My students and…</p>
<p><br/> None taken,</p>
<p>The twin pin moisture meters are a bit out dated and can only read as far as the pins can go, they're also invasive. The Tramex has two electrodes that sends a signal into the wood the higher the moisture content the higher the signal that is returned.</p>
<p>Yes I am a Lloyd's Qualified Surveyor but I'm also a formally qualified Boat Building Instructor and there is nothing that's as voracious as the rot and invasive pests we get here in the tropics. My students and I make a point to study it, and study it well, we have numerous tests running at any one time. We are currently treating a 42m Feadship with extensive dry rot which means she has to be gutted, treated with ethylene glycol and restored. Which goes to show even the most prestigious Yacht Builders in the world are not immune.<br/> <cite>Raf said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://wharrambuilders.ning.com/forum/topics/want-to-buy-a-wharram-how-to-avoid-unnecessarily-hiring-a?commentId=2195841%3AComment%3A105645&xg_source=msg_com_forum#2195841Comment105645"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>The only moister meter I know of, requires direct contact. The devise have 2 tiny pins that must be pushed into the timber to be measured and to have an accurate reading of moister content, the timber in question must be cut to expose the inner section. Measuring the surface will not give an accurate result.</p>
<p>Rot at the first stage leaves a stain only that, when painted, is undetectable and the timber still feels strong and sound at tapping. As you say it takes some time before the degenerative action of rot reduces the timber to pulp and finally becomes visable and palpable. The time it takes depends very much from the weather condition, the hotter and wetter, the faster the putrification and surveyors get away from any warranty after only 12 months, thats why they do not worth the money they charge.</p>
<p>I can see that you are a surveyor your self and understand why my statements are contrasted. As for your information my experience in timber is comprehensive, spanning 4 decades of work on boats and other facets of the wood working guild. I mean no offence sir.</p>
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</blockquote> The only moister meter I know…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2013-08-27:2195841:Comment:1056452013-08-27T06:48:04.623ZRafhttps://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/RaffaelePagliarini
<p>The only moister meter I know of, requires direct contact. The devise have 2 tiny pins that must be pushed into the timber to be measured and to have an accurate reading of moister content, the timber in question must be cut to expose the inner section. Measuring the surface will not give an accurate result.</p>
<p>Rot at the first stage leaves a stain only that, when painted, is undetectable and the timber still feels strong and sound at tapping. As you say it takes some time before the…</p>
<p>The only moister meter I know of, requires direct contact. The devise have 2 tiny pins that must be pushed into the timber to be measured and to have an accurate reading of moister content, the timber in question must be cut to expose the inner section. Measuring the surface will not give an accurate result.</p>
<p>Rot at the first stage leaves a stain only that, when painted, is undetectable and the timber still feels strong and sound at tapping. As you say it takes some time before the degenerative action of rot reduces the timber to pulp and finally becomes visable and palpable. The time it takes depends very much from the weather condition, the hotter and wetter, the faster the putrification and surveyors get away from any warranty after only 12 months, thats why they do not worth the money they charge.</p>
<p>I can see that you are a surveyor your self and understand why my statements are contrasted. As for your information my experience in timber is comprehensive, spanning 4 decades of work on boats and other facets of the wood working guild. I mean no offence sir.</p> I do it's my job, I have a mo…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2013-08-27:2195841:Comment:1058962013-08-27T01:04:39.289ZGeminidawnhttps://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/Geminidawn
<p>I do it's my job, I have a moisture meter that uses non invasive measures to detect dampness in wood up to 15mm below the surface, 15% or above and you're heading for problems, persistent damp turns to wet rot, with the addition of Hyphae spores it'll turn to dry rot which will result in a total break down of the cell structure. The rot has to be cut out and burnt, all wood in a 1.5m radius treated. Dry rot spores can lie dormant for up to 7 years waiting for the right conditions to return.…</p>
<p>I do it's my job, I have a moisture meter that uses non invasive measures to detect dampness in wood up to 15mm below the surface, 15% or above and you're heading for problems, persistent damp turns to wet rot, with the addition of Hyphae spores it'll turn to dry rot which will result in a total break down of the cell structure. The rot has to be cut out and burnt, all wood in a 1.5m radius treated. Dry rot spores can lie dormant for up to 7 years waiting for the right conditions to return. More often than not I can smell it as soon as I get on board the boat. </p>
<p>Termites can be found by radar and thermal imaging. Powder Post and other invasive Beetles leave distinctive holes , it's important to identify what's making itself at home at you expense and treat it as soon as possible. <br/> <br/> <cite>Raf said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://wharrambuilders.ning.com/forum/topics/want-to-buy-a-wharram-how-to-avoid-unnecessarily-hiring-a?commentId=2195841%3AComment%3A105895&xg_source=msg_com_forum#2195841Comment105642"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>which one are the right tools to detect rot? when the boat is not yours, paint cannot be scraped and beams cannot be lifted out, if the rot is at the first stage, meaning has just started, and is well covered with paint, no expert can find it. </p>
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</blockquote> No one mentioned the lash hin…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2013-08-26:2195841:Comment:1058952013-08-26T21:16:05.850ZRafhttps://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/RaffaelePagliarini
<p>No one mentioned the lash hinges on the ruders and would much appreciate to know from you all if any one did encounter the same problem. Here it is: Lately I ve seen a tiki 30, 5 years old, with total worms devastated timber around the lash hinges. The problem being in the fact that, no antifouling can be apply inside the holes and live exposed timber for the worms to start. Particular attention in the construction method should be taken to insure those holes are properly lined with epoxy…</p>
<p>No one mentioned the lash hinges on the ruders and would much appreciate to know from you all if any one did encounter the same problem. Here it is: Lately I ve seen a tiki 30, 5 years old, with total worms devastated timber around the lash hinges. The problem being in the fact that, no antifouling can be apply inside the holes and live exposed timber for the worms to start. Particular attention in the construction method should be taken to insure those holes are properly lined with epoxy resin and regular maintenance should be given to evoid were of the protecting lining. </p> Hi Andy. Thanks for your reco…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2013-08-26:2195841:Comment:1058942013-08-26T17:49:17.241ZJordihttps://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/Jordi
<p>Hi Andy. Thanks for your recommendations -- and for the reassurance that local problems can usually be fixed without building a new boat.</p>
<p>Hi Andy. Thanks for your recommendations -- and for the reassurance that local problems can usually be fixed without building a new boat.</p> Ahoy Jordi,
The problem…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2013-08-26:2195841:Comment:1057262013-08-26T11:43:50.561Zandy solywodahttps://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/andysolywoda
<p>Ahoy Jordi,</p>
<p> The problem with surveying a Wharram is that surveyors are experienced mostly with fiberglass boats, their main job is to verify a boat's value for a bank loan or insurance coverage, and most boats surveyed are production. </p>
<p> Wooden hull rot isn't the only source of problems, a survey will cover the power plant, water and electrical systems, safety items. I did have a survey outline at one time and it is very useful for checking every last…</p>
<p>Ahoy Jordi,</p>
<p> The problem with surveying a Wharram is that surveyors are experienced mostly with fiberglass boats, their main job is to verify a boat's value for a bank loan or insurance coverage, and most boats surveyed are production. </p>
<p> Wooden hull rot isn't the only source of problems, a survey will cover the power plant, water and electrical systems, safety items. I did have a survey outline at one time and it is very useful for checking every last thing.</p>
<p> Ann and Nev's tap tap tapping is the tried and true way to detect unsound wood. If the wood is encased in thick sheathing, it will be difficult to "hear" it. The problem areas typically are places where condensation gathers, cabin overheads, interior of gunwales. Deck fittings can at some point allow moisture into the wood substrate and then rot can begin. Below the waterline a bump or a grounding can crack the sheathing and the worms can get in. Look for cracks in the epoxy sheathing. If you tap and the sheathing kind of flaps against the wood, something is wrong there. A freshly painted boat makes it harder to determine underlying condition of the hull. Boats in temperate climates that go through the freezing/thawing process are likely to have issues in hidden places, wherever moisture can gather.</p>
<p> If all this sounds bleak and depressing, the upside is that a Wharram, which is built using ordinary tools and materials, can be repaired fairly easily. If you find a boat that is in relatively good condition, don't hesitate to close the deal, if you discover a problem later on, it can usually be rectified as part of general maintenance.</p> Thanks Ann, that's an eye-ope…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2013-08-26:2195841:Comment:1057252013-08-26T08:46:40.884ZJordihttps://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/Jordi
<p>Thanks Ann, that's an eye-opening story!</p>
<p>Thanks Ann, that's an eye-opening story!</p> which one are the right tools…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2013-08-26:2195841:Comment:1056422013-08-26T02:51:50.350ZRafhttps://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/RaffaelePagliarini
<p>which one are the right tools to detect rot? when the boat is not yours, paint cannot be scraped and beams cannot be lifted out, if the rot is at the first stage, meaning has just started, and is well covered with paint, no expert can find it. </p>
<p>which one are the right tools to detect rot? when the boat is not yours, paint cannot be scraped and beams cannot be lifted out, if the rot is at the first stage, meaning has just started, and is well covered with paint, no expert can find it. </p>