Rudder lashing issues - Wharram Builders and Friends2024-03-29T15:51:31Zhttps://wharrambuilders.ning.com/forum/topics/rudder-lashing-issues?commentId=2195841%3AComment%3A111416&feed=yes&xn_auth=noLooks like a few layers of gl…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2014-01-04:2195841:Comment:1119692014-01-04T12:43:57.435Zboatsmithhttps://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/qe0j3ojqb10
<p>Looks like a few layers of glass tape to hold the rudder cassette together would do the trick.</p>
<p>Looks like a few layers of glass tape to hold the rudder cassette together would do the trick.</p> Yes Bao Ya, I often think abo…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2014-01-03:2195841:Comment:1120922014-01-03T21:23:52.903ZThomas Nancehttps://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/ThomasNance
<p>Yes Bao Ya, I often think about building or buying a Wharram, and if I can convince my wife that the stress to fun ratio is usually more biased to the fun side then after this boat a Wharram might be on the cards.</p>
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<p>I do like those Farrier rudders, seems a very slick design. And the major components must be strong given their small sizing.</p>
<p>Yes Bao Ya, I often think about building or buying a Wharram, and if I can convince my wife that the stress to fun ratio is usually more biased to the fun side then after this boat a Wharram might be on the cards.</p>
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<p>I do like those Farrier rudders, seems a very slick design. And the major components must be strong given their small sizing.</p> Yoy say the lashing work OK,…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2014-01-03:2195841:Comment:1119602014-01-03T14:13:44.214ZAndréshttps://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/Andres
<p>Yoy say the lashing work OK, so the problem seems to be that the cases are not strong enough. If this is the problem, then the solution is to make stronger cases.</p>
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<p>Also you can attach the cases to the hull so they can pivot. There are interesting solutions in trimarans, see for instance a Farrier <a href="http://www.f-boat.com/f-33/f-33newfeatures.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.f-boat.com/f-33/f-33newfeatures.html</a> </p>
<p><span style="font-size: 13px;">Also you can…</span></p>
<p>Yoy say the lashing work OK, so the problem seems to be that the cases are not strong enough. If this is the problem, then the solution is to make stronger cases.</p>
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<p>Also you can attach the cases to the hull so they can pivot. There are interesting solutions in trimarans, see for instance a Farrier <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.f-boat.com/f-33/f-33newfeatures.html">http://www.f-boat.com/f-33/f-33newfeatures.html</a> </p>
<p><span style="font-size: 13px;">Also you can google </span><span style="font-size: 13px;">Seaclipper 20 or Seaclipper 24 where </span><span style="font-size: 13px;">Jim Brown and John Marples has a more low-tech solution.</span></p>
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<p></p> Hi again everyone.
Some news…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2014-01-03:2195841:Comment:1120012014-01-03T10:44:56.567ZThomas Nancehttps://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/ThomasNance
<p>Hi again everyone.</p>
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<p>Some news regarding the relashing. On Christmas day I beached the boat with my wife and relashed both the rudders with 8mm Dyneema then use a syringe to put thickened epoxy into the holes, glueing the lashings into their holes. </p>
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<p>On the 31st we left the Tamar river bound for Kettering, down near Hobart. About 4 hours into the trip in about 20knot following winds and 2.5 seas the starboard rudder case split in half! Not an experience I would…</p>
<p>Hi again everyone.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Some news regarding the relashing. On Christmas day I beached the boat with my wife and relashed both the rudders with 8mm Dyneema then use a syringe to put thickened epoxy into the holes, glueing the lashings into their holes. </p>
<p></p>
<p>On the 31st we left the Tamar river bound for Kettering, down near Hobart. About 4 hours into the trip in about 20knot following winds and 2.5 seas the starboard rudder case split in half! Not an experience I would recommend.</p>
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<p><a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1930098428?profile=original" target="_self"><img width="721" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1930098428?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="721" class="align-full"/></a>We had to sail on for another 12 hours to reach St Helens and a safe mooring.</p>
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<p>My next question is..What do I do now???!!!</p>
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<p>I am planning on making new tillers in the wharram style. Im also thinking about using SS gudgeons on both the rudder and transom with a heavy SS rod connecting them. However, do I just do away with the lifting rudder and attach the current rudder (both now removed from the boat) or do I remake ruder cases for vertical lifting of the rudders or, something new?<a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1930100524?profile=original" target="_self"><img width="721" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1930100524?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="721" class="align-full"/></a></p>
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<p>The boat has no skeg so Im worried about having fixed rudders protruding below at the mercy of groundings or collisions.</p>
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<p>But I want a strong simple solution, in my mind any moving parts will begin to complicate things. Bearing in mind the only option for working on the boat would be beaching it in between tides as a suitable wide enough haul out is not available. </p>
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<p>Any and all ideas welcome.</p>
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<p>The lashing seemed to work OK, no movement, Dyneema is bloody strong stuff, was almost entertaining watching the salesman trying to cut it in the shop. Also the boat sailed rather well considering it only had one rudder. Often surfing up to 10 knots and averaging 8knots for long periods with only a small jib up. (before the rudder broke) after that we spent most of our time trying to slow it down.</p>
<p>Cheers</p> From my blog:
In the above pi…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2013-12-27:2195841:Comment:1117262013-12-27T18:00:30.775ZRogerhttps://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/RogerSullivan
<p>From my blog:</p>
<p>In the above picture can be seen the industrial duty rudder hinges. When I first got the boat I wasn't that happy about them, wanting the standard Wharram lashing system. Several years later, however, I luv em. The hinges can be disconnected and both rudders unmounted in 30 secs, allowing proper sanding and painting on the hull stem and rudders - impossible to do with the lashing system. I feared that the hinges would also effect performance, but <i>Little Cat</i> has…</p>
<p>From my blog:</p>
<p>In the above picture can be seen the industrial duty rudder hinges. When I first got the boat I wasn't that happy about them, wanting the standard Wharram lashing system. Several years later, however, I luv em. The hinges can be disconnected and both rudders unmounted in 30 secs, allowing proper sanding and painting on the hull stem and rudders - impossible to do with the lashing system. I feared that the hinges would also effect performance, but <i>Little Cat</i> has seen 14 knots several times, so it can't be too bad.<a target="_self" href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1930097338?profile=original"><img width="721" class="align-full" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1930097338?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="721"/></a></p> bass straight is not really a…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2013-12-17:2195841:Comment:1112482013-12-17T20:19:26.307Zsteve martlandhttps://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/stevemartland
<p>bass straight is not really a good place to be testing the viability of a rudder adaptation like that.. I would suggest for your delivery that you use as little projected rudder area as possible to maintain steerage and lessen the strain in the lashings.</p>
<p>if you have the rig balanced is doesn't take much rudder imput to maintain course .( on off the beach racing cats it is common practice to only have one rudder down to reduce drag upwind and downwind)</p>
<p>Just a thought.. leeward…</p>
<p>bass straight is not really a good place to be testing the viability of a rudder adaptation like that.. I would suggest for your delivery that you use as little projected rudder area as possible to maintain steerage and lessen the strain in the lashings.</p>
<p>if you have the rig balanced is doesn't take much rudder imput to maintain course .( on off the beach racing cats it is common practice to only have one rudder down to reduce drag upwind and downwind)</p>
<p>Just a thought.. leeward rudder I/2 down .. less stress..</p> Thank you everyone for all yo…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2013-12-17:2195841:Comment:1113492013-12-17T10:04:02.896ZThomas Nancehttps://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/ThomasNance
<p>Thank you everyone for all your help. Thank for Galway for your thoughts, I will have a good look over any mods to the boat with a critical eye. This weekend I will relash and will let you all know how it goes. Thanks again</p>
<p>Thank you everyone for all your help. Thank for Galway for your thoughts, I will have a good look over any mods to the boat with a critical eye. This weekend I will relash and will let you all know how it goes. Thanks again</p> Yes that could be something t…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2013-12-17:2195841:Comment:1112462013-12-17T09:58:43.404ZThomas Nancehttps://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/ThomasNance
<p>Yes that could be something to think about. However modern lines are so strong I think a little loss of strength wouldn't be a problem. I think the wood in the rudders would break first before the line.</p>
<p>Yes that could be something to think about. However modern lines are so strong I think a little loss of strength wouldn't be a problem. I think the wood in the rudders would break first before the line.</p> Good work Boatsmith. Once aga…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2013-12-17:2195841:Comment:1115062013-12-17T09:57:46.270ZGalway Bayhttps://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/GalwayBay
<p>Good work Boatsmith. Once again we owe you one.</p>
<p>Looks like Thomas will be ready for his delivery which is great news.</p>
<p>Good work Boatsmith. Once again we owe you one.</p>
<p>Looks like Thomas will be ready for his delivery which is great news.</p> I can understand the logic of…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2013-12-17:2195841:Comment:1113462013-12-17T07:16:13.534ZPeter Brookhttps://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/PeterBrook
<p>I can understand the logic of epoxying the lashing to reduce movement of the lashing through the lashing holes. However, will this lead to stress concentration in the lashing itself and cause a failure in that manner? When lines are knotted for example, they lose a significant amount of their strength in the knotted area. That said, the reduction in frictional wear and tear might more than compensate. The real life experiences outlined above seem to indicate so, but I wonder if there…</p>
<p>I can understand the logic of epoxying the lashing to reduce movement of the lashing through the lashing holes. However, will this lead to stress concentration in the lashing itself and cause a failure in that manner? When lines are knotted for example, they lose a significant amount of their strength in the knotted area. That said, the reduction in frictional wear and tear might more than compensate. The real life experiences outlined above seem to indicate so, but I wonder if there have been any material studies of strength/fatigue with epoxy saturated lines?</p>