Rigid 37 footer?? - Wharram Builders and Friends2024-03-29T12:19:09Zhttps://wharrambuilders.ning.com/forum/topics/rigid-37-footer?commentId=2195841%3AComment%3A165564&feed=yes&xn_auth=noI did communicate with the ow…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2019-09-11:2195841:Comment:1694962019-09-11T15:12:32.641ZArthur Gottschalkhttps://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/ArthurGottschalk
<p>I did communicate with the owner of that boat. He admitted that pounding was a problem ad that he is selling because his wife found it uncomfortable. </p>
<p>I did communicate with the owner of that boat. He admitted that pounding was a problem ad that he is selling because his wife found it uncomfortable. </p> A great "houseboat"........…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2019-09-11:2195841:Comment:1691882019-09-11T13:59:37.224ZDean Wilkersonhttps://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/DeanWilkerson
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<p>A great "houseboat"........ I would love to have it for a live aboard in a place like Chesapeak or Puget Sound..... I would be reluctant to sail it off shore in either the Pacific or Atlantic, but it would be perfect on the intracoastal, or be a great boat for doing the great loop. You would find the pounding unbearable when sailing close to the wind. There are many cats out there that have this problem. In the pursuit of standing headroom, the trade off between windage and…</p>
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<p>A great "houseboat"........ I would love to have it for a live aboard in a place like Chesapeak or Puget Sound..... I would be reluctant to sail it off shore in either the Pacific or Atlantic, but it would be perfect on the intracoastal, or be a great boat for doing the great loop. You would find the pounding unbearable when sailing close to the wind. There are many cats out there that have this problem. In the pursuit of standing headroom, the trade off between windage and clearance is a tough one, usually losing on both ends. James understood this, and once retorted to someone's inquiry........ "If I'd wanted a cabin I'd have put one on it".....or words to that effect. There is no solution to this dilemma except upscaling to ever larger yachts. Most modern cats are never sailed close to the wind......... they just won't do it well. I've yet to sail a Wharram, but I suspect they are well above average in this regard............ but at a cost.</p>
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<p> DW<br/> <br/> <cite>Arthur Gottschalk said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://wharrambuilders.ning.com/forum/topics/rigid-37-footer?commentId=2195841%3AComment%3A169181&xg_source=msg_com_forum#2195841Comment169181"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Yikes! The more I look at this boat the more I like it. Still, wondering what the offshore effect of the lower bridge deck would be. Probably pounding. But unsafe? </p>
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</blockquote> Yikes! The more I look at th…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2019-09-09:2195841:Comment:1691812019-09-09T17:02:03.860ZArthur Gottschalkhttps://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/ArthurGottschalk
<p>Yikes! The more I look at this boat the more I like it. Still, wondering what the offshore effect of the lower bridge deck would be. Probably pounding. But unsafe? </p>
<p>Yikes! The more I look at this boat the more I like it. Still, wondering what the offshore effect of the lower bridge deck would be. Probably pounding. But unsafe? </p> Looks like great boa…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2019-08-31:2195841:Comment:1693442019-08-31T02:15:51.512ZArthur Gottschalkhttps://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/ArthurGottschalk
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<p> Looks like great boat. Certainly could not build it for that price. i agree the the lower bridge deck might be a problem. and I would like to know exactly how the beams were reengineered. </p>
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<p> Looks like great boat. Certainly could not build it for that price. i agree the the lower bridge deck might be a problem. and I would like to know exactly how the beams were reengineered. </p>
<p> </p> Here is another rigidized Wha…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2019-08-30:2195841:Comment:1690662019-08-30T15:52:58.135ZDean Wilkersonhttps://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/DeanWilkerson
<p>Here is another rigidized Wharram.... a Pahi 42, that has been rather radically altered..... quite beautiful, but you will notice that they lowered the bridge deck under the bridge deck cabin, greatly reducing clearance....... not my idea of a good idea, presumably to make standing headroom without too much increase in windage. It is listed for sale at this website: <a href="http://garuda-sale.de/" rel="noopener" target="_blank">Pahi 42…</a></p>
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<p>Here is another rigidized Wharram.... a Pahi 42, that has been rather radically altered..... quite beautiful, but you will notice that they lowered the bridge deck under the bridge deck cabin, greatly reducing clearance....... not my idea of a good idea, presumably to make standing headroom without too much increase in windage. It is listed for sale at this website: <a href="http://garuda-sale.de/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">Pahi 42</a></p>
<p><a href="http://garuda-sale.de/pics-small/DSC_6547.JPG" target="_blank" rel="noopener"></a></p>
<p>42K Euros, and there are extensive very nice photos interior and exterior there. </p>
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<p> DW</p>
<p><a href="http://garuda-sale.de/pics-small/DSC_6547.JPG" target="_blank" rel="noopener"><img src="http://garuda-sale.de/pics-small/DSC_6547.JPG?profile=RESIZE_710x" class="align-full"/></a></p>
<p><a href="http://garuda-sale.de/pics-small/DSC_6720.JPG" target="_blank" rel="noopener"><img src="http://garuda-sale.de/pics-small/DSC_6720.JPG?profile=RESIZE_710x" class="align-full"/></a><a href="http://garuda-sale.de/pics-small/DSC_6463.JPG" target="_blank" rel="noopener"><img src="http://garuda-sale.de/pics-small/DSC_6463.JPG?profile=RESIZE_710x" class="align-full"/></a></p>
<p></p> Any designer / engineer…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2019-08-24:2195841:Comment:1690632019-08-24T23:33:56.501ZDean Wilkersonhttps://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/DeanWilkerson
<p> Any designer / engineer gets hostile when people start making changes......... for good reason. He has developed a sound reliable, and rugged boat, according to his own parameters, and someone is questioning design decisions , and making modifications which often have cascading effects, and may not take into account all the structural factors that drove the original design process. It always adds weight, and often has other unforeseen effects. For example rigidizing a Wharram…</p>
<p> Any designer / engineer gets hostile when people start making changes......... for good reason. He has developed a sound reliable, and rugged boat, according to his own parameters, and someone is questioning design decisions , and making modifications which often have cascading effects, and may not take into account all the structural factors that drove the original design process. It always adds weight, and often has other unforeseen effects. For example rigidizing a Wharram means whatever you are using for an attachment structure may not be built to sustain that kind of load without some give. The lashings hold the create an upward pull on the rail that extends along the length of the hull well below the beam.. It is a vertical tension load that is transmitted into the skin of the hull via this rail, and the beam troughs carry a compression load, as well as the load of the hulls wanting to lead or trail each other... a sort of lateral rocking moment, as well as a longitudinal rocking moment. Locked in, the entire load is concentrated at the beam troughs, and through the bulkhead(s), and transmitted by this structure to the hull skin..... I'm not suggesting that this is a huge issue, but it is one that needs to be examined. The outer rail now carries nothing, and the beam trough or whatever is taking it's place carries everything......... The better part of wisdom would be to look at boats by other designers, and how the loads are distributed. I personally like the work of Bernd Kohler in many ways.... His boats use bulkheads that intersect, and furniture that is built in, rather ingeniously to create load bearing structures. The interplay of the different components is structurally critical and changes absolutely demand and examination of the total structure, and how it works... The counter top in the galley, or a settee on the bride deck has a structural function. Ed Horstman had much the same approach, and in fact most well designed boats use this design methodology to some extent. I would not consider modifying a Wharram casually....... a look at load paths, and the interplay of structural elements is the first step. This is NOT to suggest that boats as designed are "perfect", structurally or otherwise, only that one needs to get inside the designer's head, and see the little things... "now why did he do that?", and reverse engineer to a point where you can move forward intelligently with a good understanding of the "whys" .</p>
<p> James said something to the effect of "If I'd wanted a cabin, I'd have designed it that way"........ He didn't, I do. The boat is built and has been sailed extensively, and at this point it is mine..... The unfortunate thing is that it will always have the name of James Wharram on it, no matter what I do to it, and he has zero control over the latter. That has to be extremely threatening to any designer. When things go tragically wrong, the press reports "Wharram Tiki 38" in all caps, and "modified" in lower case..... I have no trouble understanding where James is coming from..... Out of simple respect and consideration, a modified Wharram should be called a "Wilkerson 38)............But can you change the papers to expunge Wharram name?</p>
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<p> D.W.</p> Omar M. Rashash said:
I'm a…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2019-08-24:2195841:Comment:1690622019-08-24T22:34:23.265ZArthur Gottschalkhttps://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/ArthurGottschalk
<p><br></br> <br></br> <cite>Omar M. Rashash said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://wharrambuilders.ning.com/forum/topics/rigid-37-footer?commentId=2195841%3AComment%3A169061&xg_source=msg_com_forum#2195841Comment169061"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>I'm a boatbuilder, not a designer, so my inclination would be to not do this modification. However, it's my understanding the bulkheads were increased in height and the beams glassed in. The boat has held together for over 40 years, which…</p>
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<p><br/> <br/> <cite>Omar M. Rashash said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://wharrambuilders.ning.com/forum/topics/rigid-37-footer?commentId=2195841%3AComment%3A169061&xg_source=msg_com_forum#2195841Comment169061"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>I'm a boatbuilder, not a designer, so my inclination would be to not do this modification. However, it's my understanding the bulkheads were increased in height and the beams glassed in. The boat has held together for over 40 years, which is testimony to the quality of the original construction, and this fixed beam modification was made by the original builder back in 2014. How well it'll hold up in a major crossing remains to be seen, but the worst I'd expect is hairline cracking where the beams are attached. This design was originally intended for resorcinol glues and polyester resins, but was built with WEST Epoxy, so it's probably overbuilt. I'll have a better feel after I've crawled through the boat.</p>
<p>I don't need to ask James or Hanneke what they think about it, since they've already made very clear what they think about folks making structural changes to their designs.</p>
<p>Omar</p>
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<p>Omar, you've got yourself a great boat. </p>
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</blockquote> I'm a boatbuilder, not a desi…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2019-08-24:2195841:Comment:1690612019-08-24T21:57:16.485ZOmar M. Rashashhttps://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/OmarMRashash
<p>I'm a boatbuilder, not a designer, so my inclination would be to not do this modification. However, it's my understanding the bulkheads were increased in height and the beams glassed in. The boat has held together for over 40 years, which is testimony to the quality of the original construction, and this fixed beam modification was made by the original builder back in 2014. How well it'll hold up in a major crossing remains to be seen, but the worst I'd expect is hairline cracking where the…</p>
<p>I'm a boatbuilder, not a designer, so my inclination would be to not do this modification. However, it's my understanding the bulkheads were increased in height and the beams glassed in. The boat has held together for over 40 years, which is testimony to the quality of the original construction, and this fixed beam modification was made by the original builder back in 2014. How well it'll hold up in a major crossing remains to be seen, but the worst I'd expect is hairline cracking where the beams are attached. This design was originally intended for resorcinol glues and polyester resins, but was built with WEST Epoxy, so it's probably overbuilt. I'll have a better feel after I've crawled through the boat.</p>
<p>I don't need to ask James or Hanneke what they think about it, since they've already made very clear what they think about folks making structural changes to their designs.</p>
<p>Omar</p>
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<p></p> So please tell us, how are th…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2019-08-24:2195841:Comment:1690602019-08-24T15:47:43.580ZArthur Gottschalkhttps://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/ArthurGottschalk
<p>So please tell us, how are the beams attached? I've seen the boat on a Luckyfish video. Loved it then. Seems perfect. I think that video was shot in the Bahamas. Do you think it's seaworthy enough to cross an ocean? </p>
<p>So please tell us, how are the beams attached? I've seen the boat on a Luckyfish video. Loved it then. Seems perfect. I think that video was shot in the Bahamas. Do you think it's seaworthy enough to cross an ocean? </p> That's my boat. Marge and I p…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2019-08-24:2195841:Comment:1690572019-08-24T12:37:18.263ZOmar M. Rashashhttps://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/OmarMRashash
<p>That's my boat. Marge and I purchased her from Larry and Connie back in July. She's residing on a mooring ball in Islamorada, FL, a couple of hundred yards out from the Lorelei.</p>
<p>I've some pictures taken during the last refit, but none show the details of the two, rigid beams.</p>
<p>Omar<br></br> <br></br> <cite>Arthur Gottschalk said:…</cite></p>
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<p>That's my boat. Marge and I purchased her from Larry and Connie back in July. She's residing on a mooring ball in Islamorada, FL, a couple of hundred yards out from the Lorelei.</p>
<p>I've some pictures taken during the last refit, but none show the details of the two, rigid beams.</p>
<p>Omar<br/> <br/> <cite>Arthur Gottschalk said:</cite></p>
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<blockquote cite="http://wharrambuilders.ning.com/forum/topics/rigid-37-footer#2195841Comment168644"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>I saw this 40' boat as well and contacted the owner, Turns out the boat has sold. It has a large bed in the central cabin which looks to me like a good thing. I'd like to know more about it, how the beams were attached etc. Anyone know the best method of making the beams rigid? Has James approved any of this? </p>
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