What is the cheapest and optimal size and type of Wharram for travel and life on board, solo or duo ? - Wharram Builders and Friends2024-03-29T14:21:24Zhttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/forum/topics/what-is-the-cheapest-and-optimal-size-and-type-of-wharram-for?commentId=2195841%3AComment%3A115191&feed=yes&xn_auth=noG'day Apace.
I am Gerry on bi…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2016-12-28:2195841:Comment:1477302016-12-28T23:24:16.413ZBig tanehttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/ThorAlpha
G'day Apace.<br />
I am Gerry on big tane.<br />
My boat big tane is an tanenui 28.<br />
Please look at my profile. I am currently<br />
Living aboard as i have to save up for an refit. I think to keep the cost down,<br />
keep the boat arond 30 ft and that will keep the project cost down as well as giving the living space bridgedeck pod for the gully and dinning saloon as well for mounting the solar panels. An binnimi over the cocpik will help to keep the sun off. The deck space will store an dinghy on the boat. I store…
G'day Apace.<br />
I am Gerry on big tane.<br />
My boat big tane is an tanenui 28.<br />
Please look at my profile. I am currently<br />
Living aboard as i have to save up for an refit. I think to keep the cost down,<br />
keep the boat arond 30 ft and that will keep the project cost down as well as giving the living space bridgedeck pod for the gully and dinning saloon as well for mounting the solar panels. An binnimi over the cocpik will help to keep the sun off. The deck space will store an dinghy on the boat. I store mine on the port deck.<br />
I find the length of my tanenui 28 is long enough even though i am widning the beam for an deckpod. That is reconended by james to do.<br />
I hope this has been helpful to you.<br />
Gerry on big tane. Happy new year.<br />
Toora. apache: I too prefer a double…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2014-03-19:2195841:Comment:1154122014-03-19T17:44:41.405ZJeremy Walkerhttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/JeremyWalker
<p>apache: I too prefer a double canoe over a mono - 'double canoe' like a wharram, but not any multihull like a trimaran and last of all an AC 72.....despite the fact that they are the fastest ever craft to w/ward</p>
<p>However, I will in the future be sailing only in the South Pacific and will not consider berthing fees in a marina in the northern hemisphere. So the greatest advantage of a monohull is not relevant for me, but maybe not so for you</p>
<p>apache: I too prefer a double canoe over a mono - 'double canoe' like a wharram, but not any multihull like a trimaran and last of all an AC 72.....despite the fact that they are the fastest ever craft to w/ward</p>
<p>However, I will in the future be sailing only in the South Pacific and will not consider berthing fees in a marina in the northern hemisphere. So the greatest advantage of a monohull is not relevant for me, but maybe not so for you</p> Apache -
I did an edit on my…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2014-03-19:2195841:Comment:1152162014-03-19T15:18:03.154ZGalway Bayhttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/GalwayBay
<p>Apache -</p>
<p>I did an edit on my previous post to avoid any offence, which was not my intention.</p>
<p>For me size means mostly cost ££ $$. For the money I have spent I could not buy a decent used family car. My alternative in monos would be a weekend trailer sailer.</p>
<p>I have some minimums I need. My seat must be 45cm above the floor. I must have 90cm above. So I need 1.35 min. headroom. [4 6"]. I need to sit a crew of 2-3 in the galley. This means sitting side by side on a side…</p>
<p>Apache -</p>
<p>I did an edit on my previous post to avoid any offence, which was not my intention.</p>
<p>For me size means mostly cost ££ $$. For the money I have spent I could not buy a decent used family car. My alternative in monos would be a weekend trailer sailer.</p>
<p>I have some minimums I need. My seat must be 45cm above the floor. I must have 90cm above. So I need 1.35 min. headroom. [4 6"]. I need to sit a crew of 2-3 in the galley. This means sitting side by side on a side bench of 1.5m. A double bunk used to be a minimum once....oooh happy days !!</p>
<p>I have sailing minimums. I must operate as a sailboat not motor/sail. I must at a minimum not lose ground under sail in a gale. I must have a rewarding sailing experience and cover good ground each day.</p>
<p>For all these reasons and more I will be staying in multis.</p>
<p>Beware the danger of looking at cabins as if they were apartments. A cabin with 1.8m headroom in the galley may be inoperable at sea. The thing that impresses my mono. visitors most is the constant supply of hot snacks and drinks. You cook in these conditions ?? I am regularly asked.</p>
<p>You must make your own list of minimums. It should include a minimum sailing performance, and accommodation.</p>
<p>Don't bother with owning the best boat. Concentrate on making the best voyage instead.</p>
<p></p> Hi Apache. To clarify:-
For…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2014-03-19:2195841:Comment:1153292014-03-19T12:18:21.538ZRobert Hugheshttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/RobertHughes
<p>Hi Apache. To clarify:-</p>
<p></p>
<p>For the same <strong><em>length</em></strong> a Wharram will have more space on deck than a mono, but less space inside. The Wharram will sail the same speed or faster except in short tacking.</p>
<p></p>
<p>For the same <strong><em>weight</em></strong> a Wharram will have a lot more space on deck and more space inside. The Wharram will sail a lot faster because it is much longer for the same weight. As an example my 26ft mono weighed 3.5 times as…</p>
<p>Hi Apache. To clarify:-</p>
<p></p>
<p>For the same <strong><em>length</em></strong> a Wharram will have more space on deck than a mono, but less space inside. The Wharram will sail the same speed or faster except in short tacking.</p>
<p></p>
<p>For the same <strong><em>weight</em></strong> a Wharram will have a lot more space on deck and more space inside. The Wharram will sail a lot faster because it is much longer for the same weight. As an example my 26ft mono weighed 3.5 times as much as my Tiki 26, and it also cost 3 times as much...</p>
<p></p>
<p>It's difficult to compare by same <strong><em>cost</em></strong> in a general discussion because there is so much variation by type of mono, age, condition, location, etc.</p> Hello "Galway bay,I sailed se…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2014-03-19:2195841:Comment:1153282014-03-19T10:10:24.473Zapachehttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/apache
<p>Hello "Galway bay,<br></br>I sailed several times on the Arcachon bay, near Bordeaux and ribs around as a crew <br></br> on small cruisers (21-27 feet) <br></br>I intend to improve myself soon and I agree that the practice is better than theory ;) <br></br>Although cats are generally faster on the water than monohulls, but my original question was more in terms of habitability for long cruise (even several years, and in all seasons and latitudes, so it is less hurry to get somewhere) on <br></br> wharram cats…</p>
<p>Hello "Galway bay,<br/>I sailed several times on the Arcachon bay, near Bordeaux and ribs around as a crew <br/> on small cruisers (21-27 feet) <br/>I intend to improve myself soon and I agree that the practice is better than theory ;) <br/>Although cats are generally faster on the water than monohulls, but my original question was more in terms of habitability for long cruise (even several years, and in all seasons and latitudes, so it is less hurry to get somewhere) on <br/> wharram cats compared to monohulls in "human" and affordable sizes such as 30, 31 pahi etc., with or without modifications, and in that point of view<br/> it seems more limited compared to mono (according to the diversity of responses too), but it can still can be</p>
<p>Sea you later maybe</p> Apache -
Multihulls are the f…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2014-03-19:2195841:Comment:1153272014-03-19T09:23:17.860ZGalway Bayhttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/GalwayBay
<p>Apache -</p>
<p>Multihulls are the fastest yachts both up and downwind. No yacht has ever gone to windward faster than the AC72 catamarans in this year's America's Cup. The toughest windward race in the world is probably the single-handed Trans-Atlantic. Since the participation of the first multihulls 40 years ago it has never been won by a mono. The same is true of all the world's major races - if they once accept multihull entries they are never again won by a mono.</p>
<p>This is not just…</p>
<p>Apache -</p>
<p>Multihulls are the fastest yachts both up and downwind. No yacht has ever gone to windward faster than the AC72 catamarans in this year's America's Cup. The toughest windward race in the world is probably the single-handed Trans-Atlantic. Since the participation of the first multihulls 40 years ago it has never been won by a mono. The same is true of all the world's major races - if they once accept multihull entries they are never again won by a mono.</p>
<p>This is not just racing yachts. Richard Wood's Eclipse a DIY cruising cat of 32ft won the Round-the-Island [Wight] race in 2002 , the year of it's launch, out-pointing the 50ft+ IMS boats and making 8.5 k to windward.</p>
<p>Wharram's Tiki range in particular have a good reputation to windward - and this in only 70cm of water.</p> Hi,
I had some informations a…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2014-03-18:2195841:Comment:1153172014-03-18T17:13:59.393Zapachehttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/apache
Hi,<br />
I had some informations about efficient modifications on Tiki 30 / 31, which can probably improve the "defects" already exposed, such as the lack of habitability and the less good performance upwind, which is the case with many cats<br />
Such as add a roomy platform between the two hulls, or add volume on top of each hull;<br />
To improve the sailing upwind, I know that some have added a centerboard (sword or pivoting) between the two hulls on a Tangaroa mk4, with some success; So I guess this must…
Hi,<br />
I had some informations about efficient modifications on Tiki 30 / 31, which can probably improve the "defects" already exposed, such as the lack of habitability and the less good performance upwind, which is the case with many cats<br />
Such as add a roomy platform between the two hulls, or add volume on top of each hull;<br />
To improve the sailing upwind, I know that some have added a centerboard (sword or pivoting) between the two hulls on a Tangaroa mk4, with some success; So I guess this must be possible on a tiki 30 for example;<br />
Goods winds! This question about whichever…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2014-03-17:2195841:Comment:1149832014-03-17T16:13:56.282ZJeremy Walkerhttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/JeremyWalker
<p>This question about whichever of -- a monohull, a double canoe or catamaran is best to buy, cannot be answered so simply...... as wakataitea says.</p>
<p>I was not so fortunate to be in the position to just buy a complete ready to sail boat and there certainly were no Wharrams lying rotting at the Bluff yacht club when I was in Durban. What was available and affordable was an old teak planked 'Sloepen' (28 ft Dutch built lifeboat) which eventually took myself and family 1/2 way around the…</p>
<p>This question about whichever of -- a monohull, a double canoe or catamaran is best to buy, cannot be answered so simply...... as wakataitea says.</p>
<p>I was not so fortunate to be in the position to just buy a complete ready to sail boat and there certainly were no Wharrams lying rotting at the Bluff yacht club when I was in Durban. What was available and affordable was an old teak planked 'Sloepen' (28 ft Dutch built lifeboat) which eventually took myself and family 1/2 way around the world.</p>
<p>James Wharram was interested in this boat when I met him because he had started out with a converted lifeboat as well, and I had also been encouraged by the skipper of a circumnavigating Wharram Oro which stopped in Durban ---this skipper had also started out with a lifeboat conversion. So, sailing on this Oro from Durban to Cape Town was a good taste of what modern Polynesian double canoes can do. My 28 ft mono displaced as much as the 45 ft Wharram but was of course way slower ( we averaged 240 miles on the best days run going round the bottom of Africa on the Oro)</p>
<p>Anyway....the skipper of this Wharram did say to me that a catamaran design 'Heavenly twins' design was good enough for a circumnavivation, and by now there are a few second hand ones available to be bought, whereas they were only new and expensive in those days..........google 'Heavenly Twins Catamaran fro sale'</p>
<p>So yeah, there are a few options, with multihulls generally costing more than monohulls to buy. But I cannot understand why anyone would get a boat that needs about 2metres of water to float in. Do yourself a favour and go for shallow draught to start with. </p> As someone that is pondering…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2014-03-17:2195841:Comment:1151912014-03-17T03:51:02.521ZTerry Galbraithhttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/TerryGalbraith625
<p>As someone that is pondering on Tiki 21 vs Tiki 26 I am enjoying this conversation.</p>
<p>Interesting points about "going to windward" but no-one has mentioned that a cat does it on an even keel(s), not heeled over at 45 degrees or whatever. While reading a Tiki 26 blog this week I a photo of the cat' scooting along with a mobile phone (& other stuff) laying on the deck; no worries of anything sliding off into the water. </p>
<p></p>
<p>When choosing boat size, I think of the 'old'…</p>
<p>As someone that is pondering on Tiki 21 vs Tiki 26 I am enjoying this conversation.</p>
<p>Interesting points about "going to windward" but no-one has mentioned that a cat does it on an even keel(s), not heeled over at 45 degrees or whatever. While reading a Tiki 26 blog this week I a photo of the cat' scooting along with a mobile phone (& other stuff) laying on the deck; no worries of anything sliding off into the water. </p>
<p></p>
<p>When choosing boat size, I think of the 'old' saying that <em>the number of times a boat is used is inversely proportional to its length</em>. Many people build/buy big in case all their family or friends will want to go sailing, but for many the gloss fades & that sailor will be looking at short-handing or single-handing; better to have a smaller boat here too.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Each to his/her own, these are just my ideas ;) </p> Robert - I agree with your co…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2014-03-17:2195841:Comment:1152952014-03-17T01:52:40.958ZGalway Bayhttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/GalwayBay
<p>Robert - I agree with your comments.</p>
<p>My experience sailing in a mixed cruising fleet is that I do as well as the monos to windward, if I have space to make long tacks. In some winds I can even do better. This despite the fact that my old sails greatly resemble the bags in which I keep them.....however on short tacks the mono will pull out a lead at every turn. However with a sharp crew even this can be kept to a minimum.</p>
<p>It was very interesting to hear the helmsmen on the…</p>
<p>Robert - I agree with your comments.</p>
<p>My experience sailing in a mixed cruising fleet is that I do as well as the monos to windward, if I have space to make long tacks. In some winds I can even do better. This despite the fact that my old sails greatly resemble the bags in which I keep them.....however on short tacks the mono will pull out a lead at every turn. However with a sharp crew even this can be kept to a minimum.</p>
<p>It was very interesting to hear the helmsmen on the Admiral's Cup AC72's [ the fastest windward boats ever built ? ] saying that as the series progressed the winning tactic to windward was to INCREASE the angle they tacked through by 12 deg. A good helmsman is still the best way to go to windward ??</p>
<p>Too many catamaran sailors seem to rely on mono. tactics when sailing and perhaps not just upwind ??</p>