storm tactic - Wharram Builders and Friends2024-03-28T11:30:13Zhttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/forum/topics/storm-tactic?commentId=2195841%3AComment%3A34604&feed=yes&xn_auth=noI think if you are drifting s…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2011-05-09:2195841:Comment:348112011-05-09T17:49:22.174ZCapgeraldohttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/Capgeraldo
<p>I think if you are drifting sidewards your hull is reflecting waves and these waves disturb the coming waves. So you will get a “protective area” in front of the boat.</p>
<p>I had this once in a crowded anchorage in Galapagos where we could not leave and we were to close to the land (reef). Big waves were coming in from outside and started to break. Every breaking wave lifted the cat and threw him with full power backwards. This was too much stress to the gear. I got the feeling, that it…</p>
<p>I think if you are drifting sidewards your hull is reflecting waves and these waves disturb the coming waves. So you will get a “protective area” in front of the boat.</p>
<p>I had this once in a crowded anchorage in Galapagos where we could not leave and we were to close to the land (reef). Big waves were coming in from outside and started to break. Every breaking wave lifted the cat and threw him with full power backwards. This was too much stress to the gear. I got the feeling, that it could not last long and something will break. So I changed the bridle going now from stem to stern, showing the broadside to the waves. This was a crazy thing - but now there were no more breaking waves in front of the catamaran, big waves but no more stress.</p> I have to make an explanation…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2011-05-09:2195841:Comment:345242011-05-09T15:21:47.712ZCapgeraldohttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/Capgeraldo
I have to make an explanation to my comment before. There is no way that you have an influence to where you will go to, you just can try to align the boat to the waves.
I have to make an explanation to my comment before. There is no way that you have an influence to where you will go to, you just can try to align the boat to the waves. ann, neville, hello.
what you…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2011-05-09:2195841:Comment:348102011-05-09T13:41:10.686Zluishttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/luis
<p>ann, neville, hello.</p>
<p>what you say is that you stayed 2 and a half days heaving to in sucha storm and all went well, is it?</p>
<p>so you don't usually run downwind in storms, but hove to? or you ever used sea anchor or drogues?</p>
<p>it's interesting to read that heaving to worked well in the T46 in extreme conditions.</p>
<p>hope the T38 does it too :-)</p>
<p>thanks for your post.</p>
<p>rds</p>
<p>luis</p>
<p> </p>
<p>ann, neville, hello.</p>
<p>what you say is that you stayed 2 and a half days heaving to in sucha storm and all went well, is it?</p>
<p>so you don't usually run downwind in storms, but hove to? or you ever used sea anchor or drogues?</p>
<p>it's interesting to read that heaving to worked well in the T46 in extreme conditions.</p>
<p>hope the T38 does it too :-)</p>
<p>thanks for your post.</p>
<p>rds</p>
<p>luis</p>
<p> </p> This is a very good discussio…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2011-05-09:2195841:Comment:345202011-05-09T12:30:30.770ZAnn and Neville Clementhttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/AnnandNevilleClement922
<p>This is a very good discussion topic. We need more of these.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Peace suffered 2.5 days of Force 10 (55 knots and higher and waves 32 feet and higher as measured by a neaarby weather buoy) offshore between Madeira and Canaries in the autumn of 2002. As Ruth Wharram suggested before we left Britain on our maiden voyage, we hove to under bare poles (no sails up at all) and Peace drifted sidewise with a bit of control of direction depending on rudder angle. When we found the…</p>
<p>This is a very good discussion topic. We need more of these.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Peace suffered 2.5 days of Force 10 (55 knots and higher and waves 32 feet and higher as measured by a neaarby weather buoy) offshore between Madeira and Canaries in the autumn of 2002. As Ruth Wharram suggested before we left Britain on our maiden voyage, we hove to under bare poles (no sails up at all) and Peace drifted sidewise with a bit of control of direction depending on rudder angle. When we found the angle we liked, we lashed the tiller bar and settled down by the VHF so I could give our position and situation broadcast frequently and other boats in the area could avoid bumping into us. As Ruth had predicted, we were frightened at first and then realized that Peace was safe and so were we and it was all quite simple. We drifted at about 2 knots and it was really noisy and some waves broke right on top of the pod. Nothing broke. Nothing was disturbed down below. It was simple to do. But it is best to avoid such extreme weather!</p> Raindrop Navigation
Visuali…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2011-05-09:2195841:Comment:346042011-05-09T06:24:14.577ZCapgeraldohttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/Capgeraldo
<p>Raindrop Navigation</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Visualize you are in a cyclone, what should not happen because there are seasons for them, but there are also cyclones out of time (Indic Ocean). It is night and of cause raining. The sea drogue worked well until one rope broke due to it was maybe too weak or too worn out. You could do what JW suggest: go with the wind and waves. But how? You cant see more than one meter, cant see the waves, the needle of the compass is doing a hip hop.</p>
<p>Put on a…</p>
<p>Raindrop Navigation</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Visualize you are in a cyclone, what should not happen because there are seasons for them, but there are also cyclones out of time (Indic Ocean). It is night and of cause raining. The sea drogue worked well until one rope broke due to it was maybe too weak or too worn out. You could do what JW suggest: go with the wind and waves. But how? You cant see more than one meter, cant see the waves, the needle of the compass is doing a hip hop.</p>
<p>Put on a headlamp, hold tight to the steering wheel and look into the direction you want to steer. The direction is shown to you by the raindrops which don’t fly vertically but horizontally exactly where all the waves will go. Easy navigation!</p> There is a fair bit written o…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2011-05-05:2195841:Comment:340742011-05-05T10:29:59.644ZRobert Sheridanhttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/RobertSheridan
There is a fair bit written on the subject, Heavy Weather Sailing published by Adlard Coles covers a lot of it. We have a very small storm jib which we will rig on a lazy inner forestay and either sheet flat to keep the bows pointing down wind or use to beat, I am planning to supplement it with a trysail. We have found that once we need to wind in more than half of the furling jib it is aerodynamically useless for going to windward. We also carry a drogue and a home made parachute anchor…
There is a fair bit written on the subject, Heavy Weather Sailing published by Adlard Coles covers a lot of it. We have a very small storm jib which we will rig on a lazy inner forestay and either sheet flat to keep the bows pointing down wind or use to beat, I am planning to supplement it with a trysail. We have found that once we need to wind in more than half of the furling jib it is aerodynamically useless for going to windward. We also carry a drogue and a home made parachute anchor which we have yet to use in anger. thanks mate.i have a plastic…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2011-05-04:2195841:Comment:340262011-05-04T22:03:18.734Zpaul andersonhttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/paulanderson
thanks mate.i have a plastic duck,er will that help ;)
thanks mate.i have a plastic duck,er will that help ;) Hey Paul,
The drogue and sea…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2011-05-04:2195841:Comment:337782011-05-04T21:37:42.570ZRory McDougallhttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/RoryMcDougall
<p>Hey Paul,</p>
<p>The drogue and sea anchor gets made off on the bow and stern cleats with a bridle to even the load and to adjust angle of pull if necessary. Stern cleats are approx. 6 inch alloy with hardwood backing pads. Bow cleats are approx. 8 inch alloy and bolted through top plank of fwd beam. After the rode has been cleated off, I always tie the bitter ends around the mast beam, as on Cookie this beam is cradled inside a trough and is never going anywhere - even if a deck cleat were…</p>
<p>Hey Paul,</p>
<p>The drogue and sea anchor gets made off on the bow and stern cleats with a bridle to even the load and to adjust angle of pull if necessary. Stern cleats are approx. 6 inch alloy with hardwood backing pads. Bow cleats are approx. 8 inch alloy and bolted through top plank of fwd beam. After the rode has been cleated off, I always tie the bitter ends around the mast beam, as on Cookie this beam is cradled inside a trough and is never going anywhere - even if a deck cleat were ripped off!!</p>
<p><a target="_self" href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1930083929?profile=original"><img width="721" class="align-full" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1930083929?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="652" height="488"/></a>This pic shows the sea anchor bridle in action. The port bridle rope is loose on the net and ready to be tied back around the mast beam in case of cleat failure. I have had 1 meter crests on top of approx. 8-10 meter waves wash over Cookie whilst on the sea anchor. She has always felt very safe and secure in this survival position. I do believe she could take a lot rougher seas before I would get concerned about damage to Cookie from high dumping crests. In theory, that could possibly scale up to a Tiki 38 riding out 15 meter seas with 2 meter crests on a properly sized sea anchor??</p>
<p>I do still agree with Wharram that to run before big seas and under safe control of any type of drogue is best, so as to be moving with the impact from big crests. But if there isn't sea room, or if the storm is blowing you away from your destination, then in my opinion, a sea anchor bridled off the bows is best.</p>
<p>Hey - does anyone have access to a wave machine in a swimming pool? Maybe James Wharram could supply one of his Tiki models for wave tank testing!!??</p>
<p>Cheers, Rory</p> g,day rory
thankyou for the h…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2011-05-04:2195841:Comment:337752011-05-04T16:38:03.442Zpaul andersonhttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/paulanderson
<p>g,day rory</p>
<p>thankyou for the heads up,the need to have ''brakes '' is an important one ,my question to you is how did you attach them to to cookie as far as strongpoints go.</p>
<p>cheers paul.</p>
<p>g,day rory</p>
<p>thankyou for the heads up,the need to have ''brakes '' is an important one ,my question to you is how did you attach them to to cookie as far as strongpoints go.</p>
<p>cheers paul.</p> I think some very valid point…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2011-05-03:2195841:Comment:333112011-05-03T17:49:58.547ZRory McDougallhttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/RoryMcDougall
<p>I think some very valid points are raised here in this discussion.</p>
<p>Different sizes of boats can require different storm tactics. I have towed a drogue on Cookie in 55kts of wind and have been in total control quartering the seas and with the windvane steering. However I do agree that the size of gear needed for a 21ft Tiki that weighs 500kg is vastly different than that for a 4 ton Tiki 38. I used 100meters of 14mm nylon line to a small windsock style drogue that can easily be hauled…</p>
<p>I think some very valid points are raised here in this discussion.</p>
<p>Different sizes of boats can require different storm tactics. I have towed a drogue on Cookie in 55kts of wind and have been in total control quartering the seas and with the windvane steering. However I do agree that the size of gear needed for a 21ft Tiki that weighs 500kg is vastly different than that for a 4 ton Tiki 38. I used 100meters of 14mm nylon line to a small windsock style drogue that can easily be hauled back in after a storm has passed.</p>
<p>However, the real burning debate is being caught in a tight situation where you don't have searoom to run before the storm and have to stop the boat and ride it out. With Cookie I feel confident to heave to under all reefs up to about 30-35kts of wind as long as the seas are not too steep. After that I would prefer to be on a sea anchor and have either the bows or sterns into the wind - doesnt matter which as long as you lash the tillers and rudders very securely.</p>
<p>I would urge all blue-water Wharram cat sailors to go to sea with some sort of equipment and plan for both towing a drogue or to stop the boat with a sea anchor. It is very cheap insurance to have when faced with the fury of a gale and no options to run for cover. Just take something along and have some sort of rehearsed plan to use it. When building why not add bigger sized cleats on bow and stern decks with huge backing pads?? Won't cost or take much more time, but will give much more peace of mind when the load is on the boat!</p>
<p>I personally use a 2 meter wide parachute for a sea anchor on Cookie and this is just the minimum size to bring her bows into the wind in a gale. It brings her sterns to the wind easier because of the skeg area at the stern. I would be happy with a bigger sized chute. It also goes through my mind of how best to handle all this gear if it was a 8-10 meter wide parachute on a 40ft cat!!!! Much bigger & heavier gear to handle safely in the growing storm!!</p>
<p>For bigger boats someone mentioned the Drag Device database which is a valuable read of real life case studies of different boats and what they successfully used to ride out storms. Definitely worth a read for any offshore sailor.</p>
<p>My advice is to have gear at hand to give you options. If you don't have anything aboard, you don't have many choices when the shit hits the fan!</p>
<p>Cheers, Rory</p>