Rot in aft beam or build "Quality" of professional and Wharram approved builder Andy Smith - Wharram Builders and Friends2024-03-29T08:52:36Zhttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/forum/topics/rot-in-aft-beam-or-build-quality-of-professional-and-wharram?commentId=2195841%3AComment%3A116106&feed=yes&xn_auth=noIf you would have some expere…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2017-01-08:2195841:Comment:1483332017-01-08T15:22:00.030ZBjörnhttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/Bjorn
If you would have some expereince with wood you would know that sound and solid plywood cannot be as easily chiseled away. Some parts of the wet plywood could be poked away with bare hands (and I can feel well what is wet and rotten). The only way to revover the existing plywood is to work well deep into the sound plywood and then scarf new wood in.
If you would have some expereince with wood you would know that sound and solid plywood cannot be as easily chiseled away. Some parts of the wet plywood could be poked away with bare hands (and I can feel well what is wet and rotten). The only way to revover the existing plywood is to work well deep into the sound plywood and then scarf new wood in. What makes everyone so sure…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2017-01-08:2195841:Comment:1480292017-01-08T12:33:02.498ZSoren Carlsenhttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/SorenCarlsen
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<p>What makes everyone so sure that it is ROT in the beams (plywood don´t rot that quickly) to me the bloke is chiseling the Wood away as I see it, good Wood, there may have been ingress of Water that makes the Wood swell a bit,that have to be dryed out and reglassed as explaned elswere in here.</p>
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<p>What makes everyone so sure that it is ROT in the beams (plywood don´t rot that quickly) to me the bloke is chiseling the Wood away as I see it, good Wood, there may have been ingress of Water that makes the Wood swell a bit,that have to be dryed out and reglassed as explaned elswere in here.</p> just e-mail them to me mark@g…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2016-12-29:2195841:Comment:1475452016-12-29T12:09:38.177ZGeminidawnhttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/Geminidawn
<p>just e-mail them to me mark@geminidawn.com</p>
<p>just e-mail them to me mark@geminidawn.com</p> I have plenty of pictures, I…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2016-12-29:2195841:Comment:1477402016-12-29T11:51:01.700ZBjörnhttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/Bjorn
<p>I have plenty of pictures, I can put some online. Can you view them when I open an iCloud album?</p>
<p>PS I noticed that the quality of the plywood seemed mixed, some good some overlays and voids, hopefully the pics can guide you.</p>
<p>I have plenty of pictures, I can put some online. Can you view them when I open an iCloud album?</p>
<p>PS I noticed that the quality of the plywood seemed mixed, some good some overlays and voids, hopefully the pics can guide you.</p> There are two types of Marine…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2016-12-29:2195841:Comment:1475442016-12-29T11:46:48.858ZGeminidawnhttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/Geminidawn
<p>There are two types of Marine Plywood you can get mainstream here in the Philippines, Santa Clara and Tuff Ply. Both are good and survived the boil tests I did on them ok. However the quality of the veneers are quite poor with an A/B side with lots of patches on the B side. The rest of the ply you get here is just cheap Chinese imports ridden with voids and overlaps, stamped Marine Grade but doesn't last an hour in hot water! For anyone considering getting a boat built here in the…</p>
<p>There are two types of Marine Plywood you can get mainstream here in the Philippines, Santa Clara and Tuff Ply. Both are good and survived the boil tests I did on them ok. However the quality of the veneers are quite poor with an A/B side with lots of patches on the B side. The rest of the ply you get here is just cheap Chinese imports ridden with voids and overlaps, stamped Marine Grade but doesn't last an hour in hot water! For anyone considering getting a boat built here in the Philippines I can offer my services as an owners representative and document everything. Do you have any photos of the boat under construction?</p>
<p></p> No, not really, according to…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2016-12-29:2195841:Comment:1477392016-12-29T11:27:27.632ZBjörnhttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/Bjorn
<p>No, not really, according to Andy Smith it was locally in the Philippines sourced plywood and he was supposed to have done done some boil testing before. From my feeling working with it during modifications ans repair it feels like a Meranti plywood we could source here ln Europe. It feels quite brittle and has rather thin top and bottom veneer layers.</p>
<p>No, not really, according to Andy Smith it was locally in the Philippines sourced plywood and he was supposed to have done done some boil testing before. From my feeling working with it during modifications ans repair it feels like a Meranti plywood we could source here ln Europe. It feels quite brittle and has rather thin top and bottom veneer layers.</p> Do you know the brand of ply…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2016-12-29:2195841:Comment:1478492016-12-29T02:08:53.072ZGeminidawnhttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/Geminidawn
<p>Do you know the brand of ply used <span>Björn</span>?</p>
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<p>Do you know the brand of ply used <span>Björn</span>?</p>
<p></p> A well built boat using the w…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2014-05-24:2195841:Comment:1177202014-05-24T05:41:29.280ZBjörnhttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/Bjorn
A well built boat using the wood epoxy construction techniques should virtually last forever, the book of the Gougeon brothers will explain the proper building techniques in quite some detail and also elaborates on the longevity of the materials and the built structure. Even "simpler" wood lasts forever when it is well sealed in epoxy.<br />
In this specific case the end grain of the wood had not been properly saturated in epoxy and the bushing had not been properly set in epoxy, I could all see this…
A well built boat using the wood epoxy construction techniques should virtually last forever, the book of the Gougeon brothers will explain the proper building techniques in quite some detail and also elaborates on the longevity of the materials and the built structure. Even "simpler" wood lasts forever when it is well sealed in epoxy.<br />
In this specific case the end grain of the wood had not been properly saturated in epoxy and the bushing had not been properly set in epoxy, I could all see this in pretty much detail when taking it apart and rebuilding it, there were large glue gaps, or better the glue missing at all which caused the water ingress (BTW I used the same bushing design on my old boat and it is lasting for 13 years without a repaint, rework or similar). So it is quite clearly the builders fault, unfortunately showing up years later and negligence in a structural part like a beam is an absolute nogo!<br />
On another note, I well understand the importance of maintenance and regular inspection of wood-expoxy-glass structures and fast repair of any chips or dents as they can occur in normal use.<br />
, The fact something has gone w…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2014-05-24:2195841:Comment:1177152014-05-24T01:32:06.908ZTam Dlhttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/TamDl
<p>The fact something has gone wrong in a boat built by a pro does not in itself mean they did something wrong. You are responsible for maintenance, and apparently also modifications to the beam. Unless the beams are laminated of small sections and then sheathed there is little hope water will not get in. Phillipine plywood tends to be of species that turn to mush rather easily compared to Doug Fir, for instance. I had rot get into my deck in an area where there was phillipine ply, sitka…</p>
<p>The fact something has gone wrong in a boat built by a pro does not in itself mean they did something wrong. You are responsible for maintenance, and apparently also modifications to the beam. Unless the beams are laminated of small sections and then sheathed there is little hope water will not get in. Phillipine plywood tends to be of species that turn to mush rather easily compared to Doug Fir, for instance. I had rot get into my deck in an area where there was phillipine ply, sitka spruce, cedar, 1088, balsa. The Phil ply, and balsa were excised in their entirety. Of course the 1088 was quite possibly made of Phil ply, but whatever they use in that, holds up well enough.</p>
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<p>Not everyone's misfortune is someone else's fault.</p> You are correct. Though neith…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2014-05-18:2195841:Comment:1173682014-05-18T13:19:24.421ZBudget Boaterhttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/BudgetBoater
<p>You are correct. Though neither foam nor fiberglass will rot, such a boat is not as easy to repair a a plywood boat, especially in remote locations. From experience, scarfing in new foam to a delaminated or broken area is more difficult than scarfing in a new piece of ply.</p>
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<p>Foam, by itself, is has no inherent strength, whereas plywood is the strength. Therefor when making a repair to a foam-cored boat, one must be certain to glass both sides properly to regain the strength.…</p>
<p>You are correct. Though neither foam nor fiberglass will rot, such a boat is not as easy to repair a a plywood boat, especially in remote locations. From experience, scarfing in new foam to a delaminated or broken area is more difficult than scarfing in a new piece of ply.</p>
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<p>Foam, by itself, is has no inherent strength, whereas plywood is the strength. Therefor when making a repair to a foam-cored boat, one must be certain to glass both sides properly to regain the strength. Plywood is far more commonly available throughout the world compared to foam. All of this being said, properly built foam/glass boats are generally maintenance free if kept in good condition.</p>
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<p><strong>General notes to all Wharram owners:</strong> There are some consistent concern areas on all plywood Wharrams where rot is known to make appearances. The most common are the areas around the beam troughs, the beams where they make contact with any other part, and the hull deck joint. These are working areas where friction or impact occurs most often. As the wood flexes, the epoxy generally does not (as Doug pointed out.) This creates tiny cracks which can allow water to get behind the epoxy, and the process usually takes years.</p>
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<p><br/> <br/> <cite>doug nisbet said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://wharrambuilders.ning.com/forum/topics/rot-in-aft-beam-or-build-quality-of-professional-and-wharram?id=2195841%3ATopic%3A115935&page=2#2195841Comment117136"><div><br/><p>I've been in <strong>David Haliday's</strong> old shop and my partner has been in both his old shop and new shop (Boatsmith). He is an incredible wood worker, yet this <strong>Very Professional</strong> boat builder has chosen to use <strong>Foam and Fiberglass</strong> to build Wharrams. It may not be politically correct on this site, but neither of them rot. However, I think everyone should own a wooden boat because I love making lots money working on them . . . </p>
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<p>Even new houses need constant maintenance. Boat builders build the the boats, but the owners need to maintain them. Just remember, everyone of you out there is intelligent and quite capable of improving on Wharram's original design in order to make them more durable. </p>
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