Re lashing rudders... - Wharram Builders and Friends2024-03-29T06:22:05Zhttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/forum/topics/re-lashing-rudders?commentId=2195841%3AComment%3A295614&feed=yes&xn_auth=noSikaflex in the rudder lashin…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2022-11-27:2195841:Comment:2959162022-11-27T06:48:27.917ZDt1http://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/Dt1
<p>Sikaflex in the rudder lashing holes is not so much for waterproofing as it is to keep the rudder in line with the hull. Without the Sikaflex (or similar) the rudder can slide to the side and fall out of alignment with the hull. When this happens, the rudder has to be removed and reinstalled.</p>
<p>Sikaflex in the rudder lashing holes is not so much for waterproofing as it is to keep the rudder in line with the hull. Without the Sikaflex (or similar) the rudder can slide to the side and fall out of alignment with the hull. When this happens, the rudder has to be removed and reinstalled.</p> Frank, I'm glad I found this…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2022-10-30:2195841:Comment:2956142022-10-30T21:32:19.190ZNeilRhttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/NeilRogers
<p>Frank, I'm glad I found this old thread as I too have the identical issue as you. Without further debate on how the lashings should/could be done (some great ideas offered), here is how I resolved the removal of old lashings.</p>
<p>I worked the stiffened line until I could identify where the hole was then trimmed flush with a stanley knife (box cutter). I then removed the flux from a 3.2mm arc welding rod and cut the rod to short lengths of approx 100-150mm. I ground the tips to a pencil…</p>
<p>Frank, I'm glad I found this old thread as I too have the identical issue as you. Without further debate on how the lashings should/could be done (some great ideas offered), here is how I resolved the removal of old lashings.</p>
<p>I worked the stiffened line until I could identify where the hole was then trimmed flush with a stanley knife (box cutter). I then removed the flux from a 3.2mm arc welding rod and cut the rod to short lengths of approx 100-150mm. I ground the tips to a pencil like point. I made several of these as they loose their temper and bend easily after a couple of holes. I made a crude file handle and inserted the rod.</p>
<p>I then used an LPG blow torch (propane) and heated the rod tip to red for about 30-50mm. I then inserted the hot rod into the centre core of the trimmed line and burned through. It sometimes took two or three heat treatments to get through and on a couple of occasions I burned from the opposite side.</p>
<p>This process leaves a neat hole but it's encased in melted material that will need to be removed. I then carefully drilled that out.</p>
<p>I hope this method helps someone else.</p> Good thoughts Omar, thank you…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2016-06-02:2195841:Comment:1430992016-06-02T22:00:28.918ZFrank Higgotthttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/FrankHiggott
<p>Good thoughts Omar, thank you.</p>
<p>Patrick, I have to replace the lashings as that is how the boat was when I bought it. The rudders had been cut off. Not sure why, maybe it helped with transportation. The boat had been stored in a shed for about 5 years when I got it.</p>
<p>Cheers,</p>
<p>Frank.</p>
<p>Good thoughts Omar, thank you.</p>
<p>Patrick, I have to replace the lashings as that is how the boat was when I bought it. The rudders had been cut off. Not sure why, maybe it helped with transportation. The boat had been stored in a shed for about 5 years when I got it.</p>
<p>Cheers,</p>
<p>Frank.</p> Like many things in boatbuild…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2016-06-02:2195841:Comment:1428612016-06-02T12:32:30.549ZOmar M. Rashashhttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/OmarMRashash
<p>Like many things in boatbuilding, there's more than one way to do something. Usually, the method given by JWD is "good enough". However, there's also "better" and "superior".</p>
<p>Slathering the holes with epoxy, threading the rudders, and then sealing with epoxy will work for a given period of time. However, there will also be problems sooner than if another method was used. The cordage will wick moisture past the epoxy and into any unprotected wood. This will lead to rot and…</p>
<p>Like many things in boatbuilding, there's more than one way to do something. Usually, the method given by JWD is "good enough". However, there's also "better" and "superior".</p>
<p>Slathering the holes with epoxy, threading the rudders, and then sealing with epoxy will work for a given period of time. However, there will also be problems sooner than if another method was used. The cordage will wick moisture past the epoxy and into any unprotected wood. This will lead to rot and failure.</p>
<p>The more accepted method when drilling any hole in wood, is to drill oversize, fill with thickened epoxy, and re-drill to the required smaller size once cured. The addition of a marine grade sealant may also be beneficial, but isn't required since you have 100% protection of the wood around the hole. Inserting aluminum tubing could work, but now you are introducing another potential area for water to migrate between the tubing and the wood.</p>
<p>Scott's method is superior because he lets in a piece of rot-resistant wood, Teak in his example, before he drills the holes. Even if the cordage wears away some of the epoxy in the hinge joint, you'll still have good wood holding everything together.</p>
<p>As a general rule, when putting holes in a wooden boat, you're going to have to protect the newly exposed wood fibers with epoxy and prevent the migration of water by use of a sealant. Epoxy is too brittle and won't provide the protection a flexible sealant will. My experience has shown me that epoxy isn't as waterproof as we would like it to be.</p>
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<p>Omar</p> Hi Frank . I epoxied my rudde…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2016-06-02:2195841:Comment:1428602016-06-02T11:29:47.682Zpatrick lennonhttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/patricklennon
Hi Frank . I epoxied my rudder lashings in place as per plans specs. I thought that because ech individual turn in the lashing is epoxied that if one of the lashing turns became damaged one wouldn't have a complete failure. Anyway hard to guess what the designer was thinking. Maxims tube idea sounds very clean and easy. Could I ask why you replaced the lashings ? Was there damage ? Cheers Pat
Hi Frank . I epoxied my rudder lashings in place as per plans specs. I thought that because ech individual turn in the lashing is epoxied that if one of the lashing turns became damaged one wouldn't have a complete failure. Anyway hard to guess what the designer was thinking. Maxims tube idea sounds very clean and easy. Could I ask why you replaced the lashings ? Was there damage ? Cheers Pat Hello Maxim,
Thanks for the e…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2016-06-02:2195841:Comment:1430982016-06-02T06:30:35.722ZFrank Higgotthttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/FrankHiggott
<p>Hello Maxim,</p>
<p>Thanks for the explanation, I understand it better now. I assumed the tubes were epoxied in and the lashings were sealed in with sikaflex, but that is not the case. The tubes are fitted with sikaflex and the lashings are threaded just on their own. Certainly would make rudder maintenance a lot simpler. </p>
<p>Hello Maxim,</p>
<p>Thanks for the explanation, I understand it better now. I assumed the tubes were epoxied in and the lashings were sealed in with sikaflex, but that is not the case. The tubes are fitted with sikaflex and the lashings are threaded just on their own. Certainly would make rudder maintenance a lot simpler. </p> You can just use the existing…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2016-06-02:2195841:Comment:1430972016-06-02T05:57:47.020ZMaxim Jurgenshttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/MaximJurgens
<p>You can just use the existing holes in skegs and rudders. If the newly made holes are out by a few mm that does not matter . Advantage of using the alu tubes is two fold: 1 it completely avoids the chance of the rudder lashing ropes cutting into the wood of the skeg or the rudder. 2 as the tubes are glued in with sikaflex or 5200 you do not need to seal the holes in the tubes where the rudder lashings go through . In case the rudder needs to be removed for repair you do not need to dry out…</p>
<p>You can just use the existing holes in skegs and rudders. If the newly made holes are out by a few mm that does not matter . Advantage of using the alu tubes is two fold: 1 it completely avoids the chance of the rudder lashing ropes cutting into the wood of the skeg or the rudder. 2 as the tubes are glued in with sikaflex or 5200 you do not need to seal the holes in the tubes where the rudder lashings go through . In case the rudder needs to be removed for repair you do not need to dry out the boat , or drill out lashings and re seal them. Removing and remounting the rudder becomes a job which takes mere minutes. Very convenient .</p> Gidday Patrick,
I drilled the…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2016-06-02:2195841:Comment:1430962016-06-02T04:01:26.884ZFrank Higgotthttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/FrankHiggott
<p>Gidday Patrick,</p>
<p>I drilled the lashings out leaving a larger hole than what was there originally. I'm not sure exactly how I will re drill them yet. The rudder holes were fine, they obviously didn't glue them in. I will probably fill the void with thickened epoxy, re glass the trailing edge of the skeg and then re drill through the epoxy. I'm wondering if the small aluminium tubing as in the first reply is necessary or not. The tricky part will be lining the holes in the rudder up with…</p>
<p>Gidday Patrick,</p>
<p>I drilled the lashings out leaving a larger hole than what was there originally. I'm not sure exactly how I will re drill them yet. The rudder holes were fine, they obviously didn't glue them in. I will probably fill the void with thickened epoxy, re glass the trailing edge of the skeg and then re drill through the epoxy. I'm wondering if the small aluminium tubing as in the first reply is necessary or not. The tricky part will be lining the holes in the rudder up with the skeg then marking and then drilling accurately. I'm putting it off until last.</p>
<p>At the moment I'm working on replacing almost all of the belting as the old belting is rotten in places.</p> Hi Frank. Could you tell me w…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2016-06-02:2195841:Comment:1430192016-06-02T01:24:05.814Zpatrick lennonhttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/patricklennon
<p>Hi Frank. Could you tell me what the final solution was for removing the rudder lashings?</p>
<p></p>
<p>Hi Frank. Could you tell me what the final solution was for removing the rudder lashings?</p>
<p></p> Thank you for the reply Ann.…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2016-05-30:2195841:Comment:1428462016-05-30T07:24:30.458ZFrank Higgotthttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/FrankHiggott
<p>Thank you for the reply Ann. I really like the idea of the rudder lashings also and have seen them work very well on other Wharrams. However I think the problem here is the fact they were epoxied in place. Sealant is the answer I think, then when it's time to renew them, removing is not a problem.</p>
<p>Thank you for the reply Ann. I really like the idea of the rudder lashings also and have seen them work very well on other Wharrams. However I think the problem here is the fact they were epoxied in place. Sealant is the answer I think, then when it's time to renew them, removing is not a problem.</p>