A Photo & Discussion Forum for Wharram Design Enthusiasts
After 50,000 miles, our old roller furler was getting tired, so we have just replaced it with a brand new ProFurl and like it very much better. The first jib was replaced a couple of years ago, and has miles and miles to go before it needs to be replaced, but we certainly can see that the new Pro Furl will make it easy to have a larger jib next time and that would be a good thing. We could easily add a foot and a half more at the bottom of the sail next time. The Pro Furl is robust and if one wants a smaller jib in a blow, a single roll would make that easy and safe and not deform the shape of the sail much at all when beating to windward when jib shape is all important. Pro Furl is well engineered and has plenty of excess strength.
A second thing we would do if we were building a Tiki 46 now would be to make the sprit a bit longer so it would be even with the bows. This also would make it possible to have an even larger jib and it would give that larger jib a better "bite" of wind instead of having it shadowed so often behind the foresail. Additionally it would offer better support to the foremast. I can almost hear James and Hanneke shouting about us and our opinions compared to all their experience as designers and sailors, but we have given this a lot of though and here we are expressing our opinion anyway. :-).
All the best to everyone and especially our love to Hanneke and James, Ann and NEv
Hi Ann and Nev
Always respect your opinions as your experience on large Tiki is second to none. Just wondered that if you increase the length of the sprit to increase the jib size, would this introduce lee-helm? I guess increasing mast rake could counter if so?
Would imaging whole structure would need strengthening to counter increased leverage and provide better mast support as you have mentioned. I believe there was a revision to Tiki 38 recommended for increased mast support following 2 Tiki's with a problem.
Enjoy your travels!
Hi Peter, I think I would write to James and Hanneke about this if I were building a Tiki 46 and planned a longer sprit now. Likely they would be happy to come up with a longer sprit so as to have a bigger jib if asked. I do trust their judgment totally.
I had not heard any problem with the tiki 38s and mast support. Can you tell me specifics? We did have some trouble with our foremast but ours was the first tiki 46 so we were the guinea pigs and that was to be expected. The design was changed as a result of our experience and at the time Nev made a fix that has worked well ever since and been approved by James and Hanneke when they visited us a few years ago at the Wooden Boat Show in Mystic Connecticut where we won a major prize.
Here is a little story to show you how strong these boats are:
On our boat we actually had a total failure of the forestay where a professional rigger back in Britain made a mistake and did poor work at the top of the forestay just before our launch in 2002. A few years later we had a breakage of the forestay where his strop broke while we were beating to windward all sail up doing around 9 knots in some fairly rough conditions off Cape Charles near Norfolk Virginia. This was frightening at the time but it actually shows just how much residual strength is built in to these designs so I hope you will keep reading to see what happened and how we fixed the problems our British rigger caused us. The thing that saved us was the strength of the foremast case. It only cracked but held the mast up so it was only a minor repair which we were able to do ourselves under the watchful gaze of Walter Greene who is a famous boat designer and also a friend of the Wharrams.
At the time of the breakage, I was able to roller furl the jib just with the halyard holding things together and Nev quickly got the inner forestay set and tensioned, then we got the foremain down and returned to Norfolk with just the main sail set. There were two cracks in the aft section to that foremast case when we had time to inspect things properly so Nev boxed it with two by fours making a massively strong temporary fix allowing a bosun chair to be used and the forestay was properly set up with a properly made strop by a friend next day. We were able to sail to Maine with Nev's boxed two by four temporary fix using just the jib and main sail. Then we hauled the boat at Walter Greene's yard, removed both masts for careful checking, and again inspected and then repaired the foremast case ourselves. We got the repairs done, topsides and boat bottom painted and put Peace back in the water within 10 days. It is now MASSIVELY strong because Nev and I opened and re-glued the cracks and then I added three or four wraps of very fancy commercial grade fiberglass around the top part of the mast case on top of some additional epoxy fillets. That cannot crack ever again. But one loves security especially for a sea going boat. She had been scheduled for that haul out anyway and we like Walter Greene's yard best for a haul. Nice people there.
I would not increase mast rake. It seems pretty well raked now and there is no problem with lee-helm at all. Peace behaves as she should and gives strong weather helm when she needs us to shorten sail. Being lazy cruisers of advanced years, we usually just drop one of the sails and she usually continues at the same speed but in a more relaxing fashion. We like the day dreaming aspect of sailing usually but occasionally we do allow the wind to put some speed on just for fun. Peace seems to do well either way. We have let her go up to 16 knots once and we enjoyed it at the time, but we usually like 9 knots for our maximum cruising speed. As I say, we are elderly.
What we have learned over the years is that we can trust the Wharram designs. They just work. Tie the knots properly and get them tight using frapping turns. Inspect everything frequently. But our structural ropes are almost all original and look brand new. Amazing boat!
A l the best, Ann and Nev
Hi Ann and Nev
I knew I had read something somewhere, this is link http://thegledaproject.com/2013/05/10/important-calling-all-tiki-38... I read this on Neil's Gleda website and further information on google search re specific incidents.
Really appreciate the reassurance you give of the "over-engineering" of the Wharram designs. I am hoping to start a TiKi 38 or 46 next July in the Philippines. Build will be very part-time to start, but ramp up as I take more time there, and less working in UK. So long as I complete before I am full-time out there in 2018, I should stay married and not forget how to sail!. We are in a high risk Typhoon area and charting of the area is somewhat unreliable. It can also be difficult to source high-tech materials. Import costs/taxes can be horrific. Current government though is doing much to reduce corruption in what is otherwise a beautiful country (sorry for the politics). But even if I could import a different yacht to a Wharram, or easily source materials for a more exotic design, there is something about the whole philosophy of the Wharram designs that really appeals to me. To sail our wonderful oceans, but need to run a diesel every day to power electric gizmos or even air-conditioning just does not seem right. I want the features that provide safety, but the rest will be basic and as eco friendly as I can achieve.
Just hope I can get the thing to go to windward and to tack. Although I started sailing more than 40 years, most was in dinghies and all had only one hull! Still a bit of competitive racing spirit left in me too. Will just have to be happy racing the local bancas. There is a race to Hong Kong and back though I think.....
Sorry to drift off topic. Might contact for advice when get to mast step in a few years.
Nev and I are not very skilled sailors but we do sail a lot. There is a difference. When real true good sailors are aboard, Peace tacks easily, sails beautifully and is very fast indeed. You will be happy with your Wharram. Work alongside the builders so you learn to work with ply, epoxy, and fiberglass and then you will know how to make any repairs when "s*** happens" as it always does especially when it is most inconvenient. All the best, Ann and Nev