How many lashings and what line and size? - Wharram Builders and Friends2024-03-29T13:58:45Zhttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/forum/topics/how-many-lashings-and-what-line-and-size?commentId=2195841%3AComment%3A118857&feed=yes&xn_auth=noI was interested to hear of t…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2014-12-02:2195841:Comment:1238102014-12-02T22:50:28.866ZDon Brazierhttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/DonBrazier
I was interested to hear of the use of nylon beam lashings as this reminds me of a situation some years ago which bI heard about . It was a large Wharram , may even have been a Gaia . The owner was having trouble keeping polyester lashings tight enough and eventually used nylon with great success. I am loathe to recommend this as it goes against the Wharram plans but some one out there may know about this boat and be able to comment on the longer term outcome. I understand nylon could be more…
I was interested to hear of the use of nylon beam lashings as this reminds me of a situation some years ago which bI heard about . It was a large Wharram , may even have been a Gaia . The owner was having trouble keeping polyester lashings tight enough and eventually used nylon with great success. I am loathe to recommend this as it goes against the Wharram plans but some one out there may know about this boat and be able to comment on the longer term outcome. I understand nylon could be more susceptible to sun damage ??<br />
Don We are the original builders…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2014-11-25:2195841:Comment:1234362014-11-25T01:51:52.492Zdavid coehttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/davidcoe
<p>We are the original builders of Windchime. We used 3/8" line, and found that using nylon was the best type to use as it stretches and then rebounds, where as other synthetics, once they stretch, do not return and then hang slack much sooner than nylon did. We have been in St James city many times, still have friends living in the area, and Windchime was at Bob & Annies, as it was known, a few times. BTW we had increased the beam by 2' when we built her in the late 70's early 80's in…</p>
<p>We are the original builders of Windchime. We used 3/8" line, and found that using nylon was the best type to use as it stretches and then rebounds, where as other synthetics, once they stretch, do not return and then hang slack much sooner than nylon did. We have been in St James city many times, still have friends living in the area, and Windchime was at Bob & Annies, as it was known, a few times. BTW we had increased the beam by 2' when we built her in the late 70's early 80's in Toronto. Got any pics of her now?</p>
<p>david & neila</p> I tried using thin spectra (a…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2014-10-16:2195841:Comment:1224552014-10-16T21:00:05.832ZRobert Sheridanhttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/RobertSheridan
<p>I tried using thin spectra (about2 or 3 mm) for our shroud lashings as I did not have much space to put the lashings through. However, When taking it off we found it had frayed and I suspect that the thinner lines are less durable if there is anything for them to rub on (in our case hard eyes). <br></br> <br></br> <cite>Roger said:…</cite></p>
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<p>I tried using thin spectra (about2 or 3 mm) for our shroud lashings as I did not have much space to put the lashings through. However, When taking it off we found it had frayed and I suspect that the thinner lines are less durable if there is anything for them to rub on (in our case hard eyes). <br/> <br/> <cite>Roger said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://wharrambuilders.ning.com/forum/topics/how-many-lashings-and-what-line-and-size#2195841Comment122153"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>I don't know if anyone has posted this already, but this seems an appropriate spot.</p>
<p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=154025" target="_blank">http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=154025</a></p>
<p>This an extremely useful thread on SA about load testing of knots and splices in dyneema and other materials. One of the interesting insights is that there is close to zero load on individual lashings if there is enough windings, and if the windings are taking an equal load.</p>
<p>The tensile strength of 1/4 dyneema is 8,600 lbs, which is more than 8mm double braid. It is also much more abrasion resistant than double braid. On my own little boat (Tiki 21) I have gone down to 1/8 dyneema and found that it winds and "sits" better and is very durable. The previous windings using nylon were much more vulnerable to abrasion even though they were thicker.</p>
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</blockquote> I don't know if anyone has po…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2014-10-04:2195841:Comment:1221532014-10-04T23:36:00.001ZRogerhttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/RogerSullivan
<p>I don't know if anyone has posted this already, but this seems an appropriate spot.</p>
<p><a href="http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=154025" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=154025</a></p>
<p>This an extremely useful thread on SA about load testing of knots and splices in dyneema and other materials. One of the interesting insights is that there is close to zero load on individual lashings if there is enough windings, and…</p>
<p>I don't know if anyone has posted this already, but this seems an appropriate spot.</p>
<p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=154025" target="_blank">http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=154025</a></p>
<p>This an extremely useful thread on SA about load testing of knots and splices in dyneema and other materials. One of the interesting insights is that there is close to zero load on individual lashings if there is enough windings, and if the windings are taking an equal load.</p>
<p>The tensile strength of 1/4 dyneema is 8,600 lbs, which is more than 8mm double braid. It is also much more abrasion resistant than double braid. On my own little boat (Tiki 21) I have gone down to 1/8 dyneema and found that it winds and "sits" better and is very durable. The previous windings using nylon were much more vulnerable to abrasion even though they were thicker.</p> Just to report that after thi…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2014-10-03:2195841:Comment:1221192014-10-03T09:27:13.471ZAndy Best-Dunkleyhttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/AndyBestDunkley
<p>Just to report that after this summer's experiences I will NOT be changing down to 6mm line for the lashings! Not that anything happened to the one lashing that is currently 6mm, but I spent a lot of time watching the beams and hulls in various sea states and could see that the forces excerted are huge, even if momentarily. So 8mm and keep them tight!</p>
<p>Andy</p>
<p>Just to report that after this summer's experiences I will NOT be changing down to 6mm line for the lashings! Not that anything happened to the one lashing that is currently 6mm, but I spent a lot of time watching the beams and hulls in various sea states and could see that the forces excerted are huge, even if momentarily. So 8mm and keep them tight!</p>
<p>Andy</p> The Wharram Plans for the Tik…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2014-07-14:2195841:Comment:1190872014-07-14T10:16:46.595ZDon Brazierhttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/DonBrazier
<p>The Wharram Plans for the Tiki 46 call for six turns of 10mm prestretched braided polyester line , while the Tiki 38 plans call for six turns of 8 mm </p>
<p>The Narai IV is between these two boats in size although the hulls are wider which may affect leverage on the beam lashings??</p>
<p>The Narai was originally designed with rubber blocks and galvanised bolts to secure the beams to the hulls but there is now a modification sheet available from Wharram Designs which gives the option of…</p>
<p>The Wharram Plans for the Tiki 46 call for six turns of 10mm prestretched braided polyester line , while the Tiki 38 plans call for six turns of 8 mm </p>
<p>The Narai IV is between these two boats in size although the hulls are wider which may affect leverage on the beam lashings??</p>
<p>The Narai was originally designed with rubber blocks and galvanised bolts to secure the beams to the hulls but there is now a modification sheet available from Wharram Designs which gives the option of Tiki style beams and a lashing system. James and Hanneke advise 10mm prestretched braided polyester for the Narai, Ariki and Tehini designs if modified.</p>
<p>The eyebolts under your beams are a different idea and keep the line out of the sun !</p>
<p>I can understand a greater difficulty tightening 10 mm line through an eyebolt than round a beam, also there must be downwards and sideways stress on the eyebolt after tightening the frapping lines. </p>
<p>The other question I was going to ask is whether there is plenty of room for the frapping lines when tightening the lashings ?</p>
<p>Although I mentioned 6 mm line being used on a Narai IV in an earlier post , I was just reporting this fact not advocating it.</p>
<p>When each lashing area is first installed it is unlikely that each turn will all be tensioned to exactly the same tension so some very slight movement and evening out must occur and sometimes further slight tightening of the frapping may be needed after a while. Also the line may stretch to a small degree. There was an earlier thread discussing this.</p>
<p>Don</p> Yes Don, two eyebolts at each…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2014-07-13:2195841:Comment:1192902014-07-13T14:23:25.884ZJim Jimbo Beyerhttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/JimJimboBeyer
<p>Yes Don, two eyebolts at each lashing point.</p>
<p>What "kind" of like does everyone recommend?</p>
<p>-jim<br></br> <br></br> <cite>Don Brazier said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://wharrambuilders.ning.com/forum/topics/how-many-lashings-and-what-line-and-size?commentId=2195841%3AComment%3A119117&xg_source=msg_com_forum#2195841Comment119117"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>A Narai IV built in South Africa and sailed to Australia some years ago had 6 mm lines lashing the beams…</p>
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<p>Yes Don, two eyebolts at each lashing point.</p>
<p>What "kind" of like does everyone recommend?</p>
<p>-jim<br/> <br/> <cite>Don Brazier said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://wharrambuilders.ning.com/forum/topics/how-many-lashings-and-what-line-and-size?commentId=2195841%3AComment%3A119117&xg_source=msg_com_forum#2195841Comment119117"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>A Narai IV built in South Africa and sailed to Australia some years ago had 6 mm lines lashing the beams down</p>
<p>I have used 8 mm on my Narai IV</p>
<p>You mentioned that there are eye bolts under your beam , did you mean the lashings go through these eye bolts?</p>
<p>Don</p>
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</blockquote> A Narai IV built in South Afr…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2014-07-13:2195841:Comment:1191172014-07-13T09:07:00.999ZDon Brazierhttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/DonBrazier
<p>A Narai IV built in South Africa and sailed to Australia some years ago had 6 mm lines lashing the beams down</p>
<p>I have used 8 mm on my Narai IV</p>
<p>You mentioned that there are eye bolts under your beam , did you mean the lashings go through these eye bolts?</p>
<p>Don</p>
<p>A Narai IV built in South Africa and sailed to Australia some years ago had 6 mm lines lashing the beams down</p>
<p>I have used 8 mm on my Narai IV</p>
<p>You mentioned that there are eye bolts under your beam , did you mean the lashings go through these eye bolts?</p>
<p>Don</p> Well thanks for your comment,…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2014-07-12:2195841:Comment:1188862014-07-12T14:30:40.690ZAndy Best-Dunkleyhttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/AndyBestDunkley
<p>Well thanks for your comment, but I'm not sure I agree with your criticisms...! ;-) (but can be convinced, I have not changed the lashings yet). The 6mm sits very well and stays tights, strain is on ALL of the turns, while I find with the 8mm I can't get the same tightness on all turns. Yes, maybe my technique can be improved - any tips?! These ropes are incredibly strong anyway, so multiple turns of a thinner line is not necessarily any weaker if there are a few extra turns.</p>
<p>Well thanks for your comment, but I'm not sure I agree with your criticisms...! ;-) (but can be convinced, I have not changed the lashings yet). The 6mm sits very well and stays tights, strain is on ALL of the turns, while I find with the 8mm I can't get the same tightness on all turns. Yes, maybe my technique can be improved - any tips?! These ropes are incredibly strong anyway, so multiple turns of a thinner line is not necessarily any weaker if there are a few extra turns.</p> ???? down size to 6mm on a 40…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2014-07-09:2195841:Comment:1188572014-07-09T07:39:57.718Zwakataiteahttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/wakataitea
<p>???? down size to 6mm on a 40 feet boat... good luck... if you don't get it tied enough, then we should work on your lashing technic. the tiki46 has 10mm rope and 6 turns. with 6mm and 20 turns, you create only a big rope bundle and the tention will be on a few strings....</p>
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<p>???? down size to 6mm on a 40 feet boat... good luck... if you don't get it tied enough, then we should work on your lashing technic. the tiki46 has 10mm rope and 6 turns. with 6mm and 20 turns, you create only a big rope bundle and the tention will be on a few strings....</p>
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