Houston, we have one problem! - Wharram Builders and Friends2024-03-29T05:54:26Zhttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/forum/topics/houston-se-haver-a-problem?commentId=2195841%3AComment%3A163727&xg_source=activity&feed=yes&xn_auth=noI have always greatly dislike…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2019-01-08:2195841:Comment:1650212019-01-08T11:24:58.786ZMaxim Jurgenshttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/MaximJurgens
<p>I have always greatly disliked the fore stay bridle thing. Where we kept them we use greatly oversized U bolts ( 12mm T 38, 10 mm T30 ) and big ugly backing plates . i do not like drilling holes through the hull in that place and all the load that is put on the U bolts and thus those holes </p>
<p>For our " Hitia " 26 I made a front beam out of 4 inch dia alu with a substantial gull striker. Fore stay is lashed to that beam and it works like a charm . Improves windward ability too . This…</p>
<p>I have always greatly disliked the fore stay bridle thing. Where we kept them we use greatly oversized U bolts ( 12mm T 38, 10 mm T30 ) and big ugly backing plates . i do not like drilling holes through the hull in that place and all the load that is put on the U bolts and thus those holes </p>
<p>For our " Hitia " 26 I made a front beam out of 4 inch dia alu with a substantial gull striker. Fore stay is lashed to that beam and it works like a charm . Improves windward ability too . This beam is lashed to the hulls , like all the other beams . </p>
<p>For our new T 30 we did the same thing but this time with a mast section coming off a wrecked 39 ft trimaran and this time with a more modest gull striker . Like wise, the forestay is connected to the beam by a lashing . </p>
<p>cheers </p>
<p> Maxim Jurgens </p>
<p> Siam Sailing, Phuket </p> Rogierio,
You may try to redo…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2019-01-06:2195841:Comment:1649162019-01-06T11:56:27.986ZÉric Bouvéronhttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/Bouveron
<p>Rogierio,</p>
<p>You may try to redo it with a back plate in order to i crease the tension area. Also, the angle made with your u bolts is not in the working direction. May be shorter u bolts could be a good idea.</p>
<p>To repair, I would try to ask Wharram, but I thinf that cutting the front on some 20cm length, as deep as possible, glue some plywood in place and re inforce on the outer side, either with anotoer plywood strip, or with a metal plaque.</p>
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<p>Rogierio,</p>
<p>You may try to redo it with a back plate in order to i crease the tension area. Also, the angle made with your u bolts is not in the working direction. May be shorter u bolts could be a good idea.</p>
<p>To repair, I would try to ask Wharram, but I thinf that cutting the front on some 20cm length, as deep as possible, glue some plywood in place and re inforce on the outer side, either with anotoer plywood strip, or with a metal plaque.</p>
<p></p> Looking at the photos,the U b…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2018-11-14:2195841:Comment:1640932018-11-14T20:29:33.740ZIan Rhttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/IanR
<p>Looking at the photos,the U bolt set-up is too close to the bow. Quite a lot too close, irrespective of the leverage from the long U section on these.</p>
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<p>When working mine out, I saw this immediately as another problem inadequately dealt with/specified in the plans - sorry Wharrams.</p>
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<p>I found the longest U-bolts (ie their tails) I could buy in A4 10mm diameter, placed them well back from the bow extremity, about 70mm. Drilling and fixing for them was quite…</p>
<p>Looking at the photos,the U bolt set-up is too close to the bow. Quite a lot too close, irrespective of the leverage from the long U section on these.</p>
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<p>When working mine out, I saw this immediately as another problem inadequately dealt with/specified in the plans - sorry Wharrams.</p>
<p></p>
<p>I found the longest U-bolts (ie their tails) I could buy in A4 10mm diameter, placed them well back from the bow extremity, about 70mm. Drilling and fixing for them was quite difficult. It's all by eye. On the outboard side on my boat, the plate is countersunk into the side entirely, but even then there's at least 50mm of meat behind the plate, and when I made the stems I laminated them very strongly, so it's at least 50mm of lam ply/epoxy on there between the nuts and the outside, not just ply.</p>
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<p>On the outboard side I then cut in for some 6mm tufnol cover plates which are masticked in, so I can remove them easily when I like and inspect the bolts/washers/nuts for corrosion etc. (TIKI 31)</p>
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<p>A wrap-round ss plate might help I suppose on some set-ups, as has been said.</p>
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<p>I was quite annoyed about this detail, glossed by Wharrams: the U-bolt parameters should have been clearly stated.</p>
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<p></p> Eu usei assim no TikiRio
A…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2018-11-07:2195841:Comment:1635572018-11-07T16:35:36.594ZRogerio Martinhttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/RogerioMartin
<p><font style="vertical-align: inherit;"><font style="vertical-align: inherit;">Eu usei assim no TikiRio</font></font></p>
<p><br></br> <br></br> <cite><font style="vertical-align: inherit;"><font style="vertical-align: inherit;">Andrés disse:…</font></font></cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://wharrambuilders.ning.com/forum/topics/houston-se-haver-a-problem?commentId=2195841%3AComment%3A163673&xg_source=msg_com_forum#2195841Comment163555"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p></p>
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<p><font style="vertical-align: inherit;"><font style="vertical-align: inherit;">Eu usei assim no TikiRio</font></font></p>
<p><br/> <br/> <cite><font style="vertical-align: inherit;"><font style="vertical-align: inherit;">Andrés disse:</font></font></cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://wharrambuilders.ning.com/forum/topics/houston-se-haver-a-problem?commentId=2195841%3AComment%3A163673&xg_source=msg_com_forum#2195841Comment163555"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p><font style="vertical-align: inherit;"><font style="vertical-align: inherit;"><font style="vertical-align: inherit;"><font style="vertical-align: inherit;">A força forte para mim e a conexão permite flexibilidade, mas eu não sou especialista neste tópico.</font></font></font> <font style="vertical-align: inherit;"><font style="vertical-align: inherit;"><font style="vertical-align: inherit;">Também não é fácil, mas não é um aviso prévio.</font></font></font> <font style="vertical-align: inherit;"><font style="vertical-align: inherit;"><font style="vertical-align: inherit;">No meu caso, comecei a usar duas adriças, uma para cada arco, como o apoio e as pazes do espírito.</font></font></font></font></p>
<p><a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1930108485?profile=original" target="_self"><img width="721" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1930108485?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" class="align-full" width="721"/></a></p>
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</blockquote> Ian Bamsey said:
I don't li…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2018-11-07:2195841:Comment:1636732018-11-07T11:05:05.401Zboatsmithhttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/qe0j3ojqb10
<p><br/> <br/> <cite>Ian Bamsey said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://wharrambuilders.ning.com/forum/topics/houston-se-haver-a-problem#2195841Comment163553"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>I don't like this much and warn against it because of fatigue failure. The bent steel strip will flex, work harden and fail suddenly. Be careful! </p>
<p>yup</p>
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<p><br/> <br/> <cite>Ian Bamsey said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://wharrambuilders.ning.com/forum/topics/houston-se-haver-a-problem#2195841Comment163553"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>I don't like this much and warn against it because of fatigue failure. The bent steel strip will flex, work harden and fail suddenly. Be careful! </p>
<p>yup</p>
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</blockquote> It looks strong to me and the…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2018-11-05:2195841:Comment:1635552018-11-05T22:59:07.970ZAndréshttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/Andres
<p>It looks strong to me and the connection allows flexibility, but I am not an expert in this topic. Also I don't trust very much in stainless steel, because it can break without warning. In my case, I started to use two halyards, one to each bow, as a backup and this gives me peace of mind.…</p>
<p><a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1930108485?profile=original" target="_self"><img class="align-full" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1930108485?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="721"></img></a></p>
<p>It looks strong to me and the connection allows flexibility, but I am not an expert in this topic. Also I don't trust very much in stainless steel, because it can break without warning. In my case, I started to use two halyards, one to each bow, as a backup and this gives me peace of mind.</p>
<p><a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1930108485?profile=original" target="_self"><img width="721" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1930108485?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" class="align-full" width="721"/></a></p> I don't like this much and wa…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2018-11-05:2195841:Comment:1635532018-11-05T20:59:14.156ZIan Bamseyhttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/IanBamsey
<p>I don't like this much and warn against it because of fatigue failure. The bent steel strip will flex, work harden and fail suddenly. Be careful! </p>
<p>I don't like this much and warn against it because of fatigue failure. The bent steel strip will flex, work harden and fail suddenly. Be careful! </p> tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2018-11-05:2195841:Comment:1638692018-11-05T19:40:50.944ZRogerio Martinhttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/RogerioMartin
<p><a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1930110560?profile=original" target="_self"><img class="align-full" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1930110560?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="480"></img></a></p>
<p><a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1930110903?profile=original" target="_self"><img class="align-full" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1930110903?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="480"></img></a></p>
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<p><a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1930112763?profile=original" target="_self"><img class="align-full" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1930112763?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="480"></img></a></p>
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<p><a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1930110903?profile=original" target="_self"><img width="480" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1930110903?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="480" class="align-full"/></a></p>
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<p><a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1930112763?profile=original" target="_self"><img width="480" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1930112763?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="480" class="align-full"/></a></p> Obrigado Andrés, devo fazer i…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2018-10-22:2195841:Comment:1637272018-10-22T23:55:44.512ZRogerio Martinhttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/RogerioMartin
<p>Obrigado Andrés, devo fazer igual ao seu.</p>
<p><br></br> <br></br> <cite>Andrés said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://wharrambuilders.ning.com/forum/topics/houston-se-haver-a-problem?commentId=2195841%3AComment%3A163624&xg_source=msg_com_forum#2195841Comment163830"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p><font style="vertical-align: inherit;"><font style="vertical-align: inherit;">Aqui estão outras fotos.</font> <font style="vertical-align: inherit;">Se eles não estiverem claros, posso…</font></font></p>
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<p>Obrigado Andrés, devo fazer igual ao seu.</p>
<p><br/> <br/> <cite>Andrés said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://wharrambuilders.ning.com/forum/topics/houston-se-haver-a-problem?commentId=2195841%3AComment%3A163624&xg_source=msg_com_forum#2195841Comment163830"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p><font style="vertical-align: inherit;"><font style="vertical-align: inherit;">Aqui estão outras fotos.</font> <font style="vertical-align: inherit;">Se eles não estiverem claros, posso tirar mais fotos.</font></font></p>
<p><font style="vertical-align: inherit;"><font style="vertical-align: inherit;">Saudações,</font></font></p>
<p><font style="vertical-align: inherit;"><font style="vertical-align: inherit;">Andrés.</font></font></p>
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<p><a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1930107743?profile=original" target="_self"><img width="721" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1930107743?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" class="align-full" width="721"/></a><a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1930109732?profile=original" target="_self"><img width="721" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1930109732?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" class="align-full" width="721"/></a><a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1930111554?profile=original" target="_self"><img width="721" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1930111554?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" class="align-full" width="721"/></a><a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1930111717?profile=original" target="_self"><img width="721" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/1930111717?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" class="align-full" width="721"/></a></p>
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</blockquote> Those U-bolts look too long.…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2018-10-22:2195841:Comment:1636242018-10-22T13:10:07.701ZIan Bamseyhttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/IanBamsey
Those U-bolts look too long. The force from the bridle is not transmitted directly to the bow, but is levering the u-bolt. You need stubby u-bolts or, as it has been suggested, dyneema loops might be better still. It will be a tricky repair involving cutting a section to increase the area for epoxying in new material. You might need to place an addition section on the outer surfaces to increase the strength, perhaps a stainless plate. You could scarf in a new section with two scarfs, with the…
Those U-bolts look too long. The force from the bridle is not transmitted directly to the bow, but is levering the u-bolt. You need stubby u-bolts or, as it has been suggested, dyneema loops might be better still. It will be a tricky repair involving cutting a section to increase the area for epoxying in new material. You might need to place an addition section on the outer surfaces to increase the strength, perhaps a stainless plate. You could scarf in a new section with two scarfs, with the new wood mainly on the outside.