Boat choices, between the Pahi 42 and the Tiki38?

[Chris Curtis]

Hello Folks.  I recently posted another question about the 42, but it got me thinking about some larger issues, specifically choice.   I have talked to three persons selling Wharrams for months (or longer!).  There are two 38's and a 42.    The two 38's appear to be very clean, and built to a high standard.  They are both also fairly "new", being less than 10 years old each.    The 42 is older, and appears to be very up to date.    Ultimately the 42 is a bit less expensive, than the 38's, but all are within 25% of each other.

We are two adults, and two preteens, girl and boy.   I have some bias towards the Tiki because of the looks, and it is a ketch (I perceive some benefits?).  On the other side, the 42 is larger, and slightly less in cost.    I also think the Tikis may be a better performer, but I have no informed data to back it up.  And really, I'm not sure it matters when I'm looking for comfort/safety over performance.  

How would you grapple with a question like that?  What questions would you be asking yourself?   

Chris Curtis

[Hector de Ezcurra]

Ann:
Thanks for your info. Do you think a classic design, like de Tangaroa Mk IV is much easier and faster to build than a Tiki 38? The Design Book says 1700 hs. vs. 2200, but we all know building might take much more than that. Even if those numbers are correct, 500 hs., to me, means sailing almost a year earlier, as I can work about 800 hs. a year in a project like this.
Regards.
Héctor.

Ann and Neville Clement said:

Hi Hector,
I write and Nev fixes stuff.
About the old Classic designs, we have friends with them and one friend actually prefers the classic over the Pahi or Tiki plans. He built a big classic and sailed extensively in the Pacific and feels that the older keel is stronger. At least his boat survived a horrid pounding on the reef when mistakes were made entering a harbor one time.
There are modern upgrades to the old plans for Tiki type sails, longer crossbeams for a wider boat, etc etc. Contact the design office and if you tell them I sent you, they might give me a commission.
Nev and I are eager to see a friend's Tangaroa Mk IV which he plans to sail south from Michigan sometime soon. They are smaller, and that is to be expected as well as being less roomy inside. but they sure get the job done. They go good, according to our friend who sailed in the Pacific. He built the ketch and loved it. I would prefer the cutter. But the ketch would leave more room for a deck house. If I had one it would be mostly made of fabric. I am just dreaming. Nev and I will likely sail in Peace IV for the rest of our sailing days. But one always dreams about boats.
Perhaps some Tangaroa people will comment here. I really am interested in the design.
Ann (of Ann and Nev)

[Jacques]

Just about the look: I like the 38 much more than the Pahi. I read somewhere also that the deck design is better on a Tiki. The Pahi is less open and more complicated. I like a clean deck.
Hi Ann, Hi Nev. I will be back in AH next month to finish my boat. I love Marseille.
Unfortunately, as you said one day, I'm not the first one to lose his wife because of a boat.

[Ann and Neville Clement]

Hi,
The Wharrams think the Classics are quicker to build relative to the Tiki desgins and I would guess they know what they are talking about. They think the Tikis are faster and carry more load. My own opinion is that the cutter rig gives you a larger roller furling jib and we are dedicated cruisers which means we are grateful to be able to wait for fair winds. We are rarely needing to sail up wind for any reason. So one of our frustrations with Peace IV is that the roller furling jib is so small. It is the easiest sail to raise and use but the smallest sail aboard. Clifton Thompson is planning to put a longer bow sprit on his Tiki 46 and I think that will be a wonderful idea because then his jib can be bigger. We have an assymetric spinnaker which works well, but has to be brought out and set up and we are elderly and lazy. I sailed a monohull cutter for years alone and loved the ease of that giant jib that can be put on a cutter. I would not want to put a giant jib on a Tangaroa Mk IV unless I modified the crossbeams to be longer so the boat would have a good width to take that much yardage.
Oops, phone call from Jeff Kittle on Kittywake - they will drive to meet us in Titusville! Hoorah! Nev started engines. We will be underway in 3 min.
Ann and Nev

Hector de Ezcurra said:

Ann:
Thanks for your info. Do you think a classic design, like de Tangaroa Mk IV is much easier and faster to build than a Tiki 38? The Design Book says 1700 hs. vs. 2200, but we all know building might take much more than that. Even if those numbers are correct, 500 hs., to me, means sailing almost a year earlier, as I can work about 800 hs. a year in a project like this.
Regards.
Héctor.

Ann and Neville Clement said:

Hi Hector,
I write and Nev fixes stuff.
About the old Classic designs, we have friends with them and one friend actually prefers the classic over the Pahi or Tiki plans. He built a big classic and sailed extensively in the Pacific and feels that the older keel is stronger. At least his boat survived a horrid pounding on the reef when mistakes were made entering a harbor one time.
There are modern upgrades to the old plans for Tiki type sails, longer crossbeams for a wider boat, etc etc. Contact the design office and if you tell them I sent you, they might give me a commission.
Nev and I are eager to see a friend's Tangaroa Mk IV which he plans to sail south from Michigan sometime soon. They are smaller, and that is to be expected as well as being less roomy inside. but they sure get the job done. They go good, according to our friend who sailed in the Pacific. He built the ketch and loved it. I would prefer the cutter. But the ketch would leave more room for a deck house. If I had one it would be mostly made of fabric. I am just dreaming. Nev and I will likely sail in Peace IV for the rest of our sailing days. But one always dreams about boats.
Perhaps some Tangaroa people will comment here. I really am interested in the design.
Ann (of Ann and Nev)

[Chris Curtis]

Hello All. I'm the person who originally posted the question on boat choice. I really appreciate all the great comments people have given. I do think we have made a choice. In the next few weeks we'll see our "choice" again once more, and most likely make a deposit. As a family, We'll be heading out to go cruising in sometime in July for at least a year. We'll plan to be down in Florida in early December to meet all the fine folks at the Wharram Rendezvous. If you have never been, it is well worth it. We have Ann and Neville, David and his wife, and all the other fine folks who went to last years rendezvous to thank for our plans. Going to Florida, and meeting them really pushed us over the edge as far as the decision to go cruising. Our entire family is excited to take off, but we still have 4 more months of preparation before we do.

Chris Curtis