Big Green Hippy Ship - Wharram Builders and Friends2024-03-28T21:19:47Zhttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/forum/topics/big-green-hippy-ship?commentId=2195841%3AComment%3A34986&feed=yes&xn_auth=noI think Boatsmith has a very…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2011-06-13:2195841:Comment:384982011-06-13T05:59:19.318ZGeminidawnhttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/Geminidawn
I think Boatsmith has a very good point. In the days of the EiTC long before any auxillary, the average East Indiaman displaced between 1100-1400 tons compared to the Pahi's 8. When they ended up in a harbour that was too small to swing a Northumberland cat they would lower the row boats over the side to push, pull and tow her into position to set sail. Around here when the locals want to get their working currachs from A to B they use an outboard, but if they're towing a load it's done with…
I think Boatsmith has a very good point. In the days of the EiTC long before any auxillary, the average East Indiaman displaced between 1100-1400 tons compared to the Pahi's 8. When they ended up in a harbour that was too small to swing a Northumberland cat they would lower the row boats over the side to push, pull and tow her into position to set sail. Around here when the locals want to get their working currachs from A to B they use an outboard, but if they're towing a load it's done with the oar.<br/><br/><cite>boatsmith said:</cite>
<blockquote><div>One might also question whether 30 hp is enough motor for a 63'catamaran. It would seem about 1/2 the minimum in my book. If all you want is low speed maneuvering in a harbor then my thought would be to put the hp in the tender motor and make the tender that much more useful and tie the tender to the big boat when needed. This is how the skipjacks did it.</div>
</blockquote> One might also question wheth…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2011-06-12:2195841:Comment:384102011-06-12T18:22:45.734Zboatsmithhttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/qe0j3ojqb10
One might also question whether 30 hp is enough motor for a 63'catamaran. It would seem about 1/2 the minimum in my book. If all you want is low speed maneuvering in a harbor then my thought would be to put the hp in the tender motor and make the tender that much more useful and tie the tender to the big boat when needed. This is how the skipjacks did it.
One might also question whether 30 hp is enough motor for a 63'catamaran. It would seem about 1/2 the minimum in my book. If all you want is low speed maneuvering in a harbor then my thought would be to put the hp in the tender motor and make the tender that much more useful and tie the tender to the big boat when needed. This is how the skipjacks did it. Be very careful with informat…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2011-06-12:2195841:Comment:384902011-06-12T15:05:38.036ZGalway Bayhttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/GalwayBay
<p>Be very careful with information given by salesmen!!!</p>
<p>I do not know what size batteries you propose but it sounds a lot like 4 x 100 = 400</p>
<p>2 x 5000w = 10,000w at 12v current draw 10,000 / 12 approx 800 amps. This is a truly staggering current .</p>
<p>It sounds like your salesman has divided this 800 by 400 = 1/2 hour or 30 min.</p>
<p>This is not true. For various reasons batteries only supply about 45% of their rated amp/hours at the voltages you need and without damage - and…</p>
<p>Be very careful with information given by salesmen!!!</p>
<p>I do not know what size batteries you propose but it sounds a lot like 4 x 100 = 400</p>
<p>2 x 5000w = 10,000w at 12v current draw 10,000 / 12 approx 800 amps. This is a truly staggering current .</p>
<p>It sounds like your salesman has divided this 800 by 400 = 1/2 hour or 30 min.</p>
<p>This is not true. For various reasons batteries only supply about 45% of their rated amp/hours at the voltages you need and without damage - and this measured at a discharge rate of only 25 amps.</p>
<p>On paper these batteries would give power for 13 minutes but in reality they probably simply could not supply an output of 200 amps each.</p>
<p>This is in fact the sort of discharge that truck batteries ARE designed for but without more boring math try imagining ripping the sparking cables off your truck and holding the starter button down for 10 continuous minutes - that is the sort of job your salesman is suggesting !!!</p>
<p>A second thing here is that I cannot see 2 x 5kw as equal to 2 x 15hp. My experience is only with small trolling motors but I would only see a 5kw as equal to a 7 or 8hp. Also the anglers who use electric trolling motors here do not use deep cycle batteries as the current draw is at least as well suited to an auto battery and at a fraction of the price and they seem to last quite well provided you only draw off the "top"of the battery perhaps 25 or 30 out of a 100amp/hour battery.</p>
<p>The safe and green compromise might be as simple as two good but used motors - and then do your very best to never use them ???</p>
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<p> </p> I am working on a system that…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2011-06-11:2195841:Comment:383902011-06-11T00:03:20.977ZIain & Cherry Mae Cairnshttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/IainCairns
I am working on a system that has an electric motor geared up, running an hydraulic pump which in turns runs the anchor hoist {when needed} as well as a drive system that has a hydraulic motor on the end of a outboard gearbox foot.
I am working on a system that has an electric motor geared up, running an hydraulic pump which in turns runs the anchor hoist {when needed} as well as a drive system that has a hydraulic motor on the end of a outboard gearbox foot. My twopence worth: it depends…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2011-05-23:2195841:Comment:355072011-05-23T21:28:27.439ZRobert Sheridanhttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/RobertSheridan
<p>My twopence worth: it depends where you will be sailing and your personal risk assessment. For me the engine has 2 primary purposes: to get me out of trouble when the wind fails or I have gear failuer and I am in shipping lanes or being swept in to danger and to enable me to manouvre in harbours (where the wind is often fickle). Of these the former is key (I sail in the UK where there are strong tides and a lot of shipping). If you are working it is also good to know that you can get back…</p>
<p>My twopence worth: it depends where you will be sailing and your personal risk assessment. For me the engine has 2 primary purposes: to get me out of trouble when the wind fails or I have gear failuer and I am in shipping lanes or being swept in to danger and to enable me to manouvre in harbours (where the wind is often fickle). Of these the former is key (I sail in the UK where there are strong tides and a lot of shipping). If you are working it is also good to know that you can get back on time!</p>
<p>Your engine selection needs to be up to it, and if you have to motor off a leeshore in a gale you will need more than half an hour battery power and plenty of hp.</p> I have 2 x 15hp Yamaha Enduro…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2011-05-23:2195841:Comment:351532011-05-23T01:09:37.424ZDave Vinnicombehttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/DaveVinnicombe
<p>I have 2 x 15hp Yamaha Enduro two stroke motors on Dragon (T38). They are light, cheap to run and reliable. The T38 sails so well that motoring is a low priority. I probably used 100 litres of fuel from Cape Town to Auckland.</p>
<p>Electric is always a good topic to re-visit from time to time. But it has to be light, cheap and easy before it beats the outboard system.</p>
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<p>Dave</p>
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<p>I have 2 x 15hp Yamaha Enduro two stroke motors on Dragon (T38). They are light, cheap to run and reliable. The T38 sails so well that motoring is a low priority. I probably used 100 litres of fuel from Cape Town to Auckland.</p>
<p>Electric is always a good topic to re-visit from time to time. But it has to be light, cheap and easy before it beats the outboard system.</p>
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<p>Dave</p>
<p> </p> Remember when I said that the…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2011-05-21:2195841:Comment:356892011-05-21T19:54:22.435ZRich Younghttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/RichYoung
<p>Remember when I said that there must be a lot of interest in this topic right now? The current (June 2011) issue of Sailing (the magazine of the American Sailing Association) just showed up in the mail with an article on electric auxiliary conversions, too. Their web site (sailingmagazine.net) does not show any info for the June issue yet, so I'll summarize the resources they list below:</p>
<ul>
<li>QuieTorque ibl Systems (10-30HP equiv) and Weekender Hybrid series (8-12HP equiv), contact…</li>
</ul>
<p>Remember when I said that there must be a lot of interest in this topic right now? The current (June 2011) issue of Sailing (the magazine of the American Sailing Association) just showed up in the mail with an article on electric auxiliary conversions, too. Their web site (sailingmagazine.net) does not show any info for the June issue yet, so I'll summarize the resources they list below:</p>
<ul>
<li>QuieTorque ibl Systems (10-30HP equiv) and Weekender Hybrid series (8-12HP equiv), contact electricyacht.com</li>
<li>HybridMaster (no HP equivalent given), contact mastervolt.com</li>
<li>E-Pod Systems (7-15HP equiv), contact re-e-power.com,</li>
<li>and Torqeedo electric outboards (8HP equiv), contact torqeedo.com</li>
</ul>
<p>Of these, it appears that the Weekender and HybridMaster are intended to adapt existing inboards to hybrid operation. The first three are inboard designs; the E-Pod is a permanently mounted external pod; and the Torqeedo is an outboard, of course. The E-Pod is the only one that mentions electric regeneration under sail. I could swear I saw something about somebody somewhere putting E-Pods on a Tiki, but I can't find it now.</p> Cheers Hans, All I asked was…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2011-05-19:2195841:Comment:352122011-05-19T22:31:21.071ZGeminidawnhttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/Geminidawn
<p>Cheers Hans, All I asked was to replace 2 x 15hp outboards and I was told 2 x 5kw motors on a 24 volt system but in order to get it accurately calculated I have to submit the LOA, LWL, Beam, Draught and Displacment. Thanks again for all the replys looks like I have got a lot of homework to do.</p>
<p>Cheers Hans, All I asked was to replace 2 x 15hp outboards and I was told 2 x 5kw motors on a 24 volt system but in order to get it accurately calculated I have to submit the LOA, LWL, Beam, Draught and Displacment. Thanks again for all the replys looks like I have got a lot of homework to do.</p> Apparently, there's a lot of…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2011-05-19:2195841:Comment:350802011-05-19T22:09:25.248ZRich Younghttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/RichYoung
<p>Apparently, there's a lot of interest in electric propulsion right now. Cruising World has an item about lightning protection in electric-auxiliary boats:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.cruisingworld.com/blogs/how-to-lightning-protection-electric-propulsion?cmpid=enews051911" target="_blank">http://www.cruisingworld.com/blogs/how-to-lightning-protection-electric-propulsion?cmpid=enews051911</a></p>
<p>Apparently, there's a lot of interest in electric propulsion right now. Cruising World has an item about lightning protection in electric-auxiliary boats:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.cruisingworld.com/blogs/how-to-lightning-protection-electric-propulsion?cmpid=enews051911" target="_blank">http://www.cruisingworld.com/blogs/how-to-lightning-protection-electric-propulsion?cmpid=enews051911</a></p> Gemini -
Google "Largyalo" if…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2011-05-19:2195841:Comment:353082011-05-19T14:16:26.354ZBob Boishttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/BobBois
<p>Gemini -</p>
<p>Google "Largyalo" if you haven't already. Pahi 63 with electric motors. Last I heard from them, they were happily cruising with their set up. Now, I'm not saying they didn't spend a lot of money to get it where they need it...that's something you can ask them. They are open and generous with their experiences.</p>
<p>Gemini -</p>
<p>Google "Largyalo" if you haven't already. Pahi 63 with electric motors. Last I heard from them, they were happily cruising with their set up. Now, I'm not saying they didn't spend a lot of money to get it where they need it...that's something you can ask them. They are open and generous with their experiences.</p>