Adding Winglets to my Tiki 26 - Wharram Builders and Friends2024-03-29T02:11:40Zhttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/forum/topics/adding-winglets-to-my-tiki-26?commentId=2195841%3AComment%3A112529&feed=yes&xn_auth=noBrilliant ! Now that you have…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2019-10-09:2195841:Comment:1695392019-10-09T01:40:08.136ZReuben Filsellhttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/ReubenFilsell
<p>Brilliant ! Now that you have worked out the angle have you fixed them in permanently ?</p>
<p>Those bolts and angle brackets would be draggy as all get out !</p>
<p>A couple of points.</p>
<p>I would angle the foils aft a bit so they don't collect weed.</p>
<p>I would reinforce the skeg with some extra glass as the lift force is taken by them.</p>
<p>Beach cats don't have the leading edge skeg so that is why the foils go on the rudder, although the extra depth on a beach cat rudder would…</p>
<p>Brilliant ! Now that you have worked out the angle have you fixed them in permanently ?</p>
<p>Those bolts and angle brackets would be draggy as all get out !</p>
<p>A couple of points.</p>
<p>I would angle the foils aft a bit so they don't collect weed.</p>
<p>I would reinforce the skeg with some extra glass as the lift force is taken by them.</p>
<p>Beach cats don't have the leading edge skeg so that is why the foils go on the rudder, although the extra depth on a beach cat rudder would give greater leverage, not really applicable to the Wharram set up.</p>
<p>Have a look at this Tane rudder set up here.</p>
<p><a href="http://pca.colegarner.com/SeaPeople-002.pdf" target="_blank">http://pca.colegarner.com/SeaPeople-002.pdf</a></p>
<p>Page 17</p> Thankstag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2014-05-10:2195841:Comment:1172322014-05-10T17:47:01.818ZRogerhttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/RogerSullivan
<p>Thanks</p>
<p>Thanks</p> Hi Roger, I would never put t…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2014-05-10:2195841:Comment:1171232014-05-10T17:01:36.971ZMatthias von Mutiushttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/MatthiasvonMutius
Hi Roger, I would never put those winglets on the rudders, the load would probably be to big for the pintles.<br></br>
My winglets are calculated to bring a dynamic lift of around fifty to hundred pounds on each hull plus uncalculable forces from up andere down movements while hobbyhorsing....<br></br>
The winglets on each side of the hull are good for atleast 300 pounds load each...<br></br>
I trink the winglets work best in stabilizing when they also produce the optimum lift. So they do not work as a…
Hi Roger, I would never put those winglets on the rudders, the load would probably be to big for the pintles.<br/>
My winglets are calculated to bring a dynamic lift of around fifty to hundred pounds on each hull plus uncalculable forces from up andere down movements while hobbyhorsing....<br/>
The winglets on each side of the hull are good for atleast 300 pounds load each...<br/>
I trink the winglets work best in stabilizing when they also produce the optimum lift. So they do not work as a antiupwarts wing but work against the downward movement of the stern and equalize a bit the lifting impetus at the bows. Anyhow the winglets work best when sailing in strong wind at higher speed, specially when surfing downwinds on nice waves of 5-9 feet.<br/>
Summary: the forces on these winglets are High, they can help to get a Tiki sailing faster Hi Matthius,
Thanks for an in…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2014-05-10:2195841:Comment:1173072014-05-10T16:22:03.460ZRogerhttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/RogerSullivan
<p>Hi Matthius,</p>
<p>Thanks for an interesting topic. I am curious if you considered fitting the winglets onto the rudders themselves - there is quite a discussion at Sailing Anarchy at the moment on doing this on beachcats. Also, when you experimented with less of an angle of attack, was there still a benefit in pitch control (hobby-horsing)?</p>
<p>Thanks</p>
<p>Hi Matthius,</p>
<p>Thanks for an interesting topic. I am curious if you considered fitting the winglets onto the rudders themselves - there is quite a discussion at Sailing Anarchy at the moment on doing this on beachcats. Also, when you experimented with less of an angle of attack, was there still a benefit in pitch control (hobby-horsing)?</p>
<p>Thanks</p> Thanks Matthias, that's inter…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2014-01-20:2195841:Comment:1126142014-01-20T20:59:34.792ZRobert Hugheshttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/RobertHughes
<p>Thanks Matthias, that's interesting. I hadn't thought of making the storage pockets out of trampoline material but it makes a lot of sense. It would certainly keep the weight down.</p>
<p>Rob</p>
<p>Thanks Matthias, that's interesting. I hadn't thought of making the storage pockets out of trampoline material but it makes a lot of sense. It would certainly keep the weight down.</p>
<p>Rob</p> Hi John,
about hobbyhorsing…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2014-01-20:2195841:Comment:1124242014-01-20T10:19:40.789ZMatthias von Mutiushttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/MatthiasvonMutius
<p>Hi John, </p>
<p> about hobbyhorsing, I think it is helping quite a bit, but it is not eliminating the problem. On the other side I think that under severe hobbyhorsing conditions, like when going under engine against waves of 75-150 cm, the winglets might add some stronger drag, simply because they are moving more up and down through the water then observing a longitudinal flow direction.</p>
<p> Best wishes, Matthias</p>
<p></p>
<p> </p>
<p>Hi John, </p>
<p> about hobbyhorsing, I think it is helping quite a bit, but it is not eliminating the problem. On the other side I think that under severe hobbyhorsing conditions, like when going under engine against waves of 75-150 cm, the winglets might add some stronger drag, simply because they are moving more up and down through the water then observing a longitudinal flow direction.</p>
<p> Best wishes, Matthias</p>
<p></p>
<p> </p> Hi Rob,
I have long storage…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2014-01-20:2195841:Comment:1126912014-01-20T10:14:08.395ZMatthias von Mutiushttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/MatthiasvonMutius
<p>Hi Rob,</p>
<p> I have long storage pockets under the sidebenches, about as deep as the cockpit hangs, made out of trampolin material, thats where we store everything that can get wet, is wet (snorkeling gear, hooks and paddles for the dinghy etc ) plus the water jerrycans and the fuel supply for the outboard engine. Its nice, to never put such wet stuff in one of the hulls :-)</p>
<p> Sometimes waves slam in the front of these storages, with water coming out under the benches/boards and…</p>
<p>Hi Rob,</p>
<p> I have long storage pockets under the sidebenches, about as deep as the cockpit hangs, made out of trampolin material, thats where we store everything that can get wet, is wet (snorkeling gear, hooks and paddles for the dinghy etc ) plus the water jerrycans and the fuel supply for the outboard engine. Its nice, to never put such wet stuff in one of the hulls :-)</p>
<p> Sometimes waves slam in the front of these storages, with water coming out under the benches/boards and flooding the space under the sprayhood...</p>
<p></p>
<p> This one is shorter :-)</p>
<p>Matthias</p> Hi John,
I need t search my p…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2014-01-20:2195841:Comment:1125322014-01-20T09:59:09.389ZMatthias von Mutiushttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/MatthiasvonMutius
<p>Hi John,</p>
<p>I need t search my picturestorage for the sprayhood pictures.. I have basically one that starts at the mastbeam and covers the whole cockpit from side to side, there are two stainless rods that are folding down to the upperside of this beam and the roof of the hulls, just next to the cockpit. In the middle where the mast is I put a zipper, and the rwo stainless tubes have a removable middle part a bit longer then the mast diameter so I can put the sprayhood flat on the beam…</p>
<p>Hi John,</p>
<p>I need t search my picturestorage for the sprayhood pictures.. I have basically one that starts at the mastbeam and covers the whole cockpit from side to side, there are two stainless rods that are folding down to the upperside of this beam and the roof of the hulls, just next to the cockpit. In the middle where the mast is I put a zipper, and the rwo stainless tubes have a removable middle part a bit longer then the mast diameter so I can put the sprayhood flat on the beam and leaving the mast clean. There is an also an opening in the sprayhood for the mast which can be closed nearly tight when the sprayhood is up. So quite a complicated setup but for a couple of reasons:</p>
<p>1. I wanted the sprayhood to start with the front of the mastbeam, so all water flying from there would be stopped</p>
<p>2. I have all anchoring gear and ropes for mooring etc in a box filling the front of the cockpit, as high as the benches on the side, so I needed to leave that accessible, and I must be able to bring the anchors to the front beam.</p>
<p>3. I changed the cockpit even more having a second bench going from side to side, where I store the drifter, spinnakers and which is the second base of point 4.</p>
<p>4, When anchoring, we put a simple igloo-styled tent in the cockpit, with very comfortable mattrasses :-) ,for doing so, the cover of the front anchoring storage has a doubled and hinged top which folds to the middle box and forms a platform on which we can put the tent.</p>
<p>5. In case of high wind, storm conditions I wanted to be able to get no additional windage, so folding down was imminent.</p>
<p>6. The sprayhood had to be big enough that the one on watch while sailing at night could laydown covered from wind and wetness,</p>
<p>There where other facts to be consideres like: the foresails sheets must run free of the sprayhood, and there must be enough room for the mainsail.</p>
<p>The result is quite pleasing for us. It did take about a week to fabricate this thing on place in greece with a lot of trying, measuring, restitching etc. I used a simple sewing machine and a much to small camping table for sewing, which made it even more of a p.i.a. :-)</p>
<p>So in my last years summersailing blog at <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.mutius.weebly.com" target="_blank">www.mutius.weebly.com</a> at the earlier posts there are two or three pictures showing the results...</p>
<p>Sorry for being so long</p>
<p>Matthias</p>
<p></p> Hi Matthias, many thanks for…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2014-01-18:2195841:Comment:1125292014-01-18T23:39:28.045Zjohn harrishttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/johnharris
<p>Hi Matthias, many thanks for the interesting information in this thread.</p>
<p>I owned a Tiki 26 10 years ago and remember a few times being spooked by the way she was squatting down .I even went looking for water in the aft bilges even though it didnt make sense.I also experienced quite serious hobbyhorsing in seas that I didnt think were rough enough to produce the effect I was experiencing.I thought about ways to reduce this and like you, considered a horizontal hull surface at the rear…</p>
<p>Hi Matthias, many thanks for the interesting information in this thread.</p>
<p>I owned a Tiki 26 10 years ago and remember a few times being spooked by the way she was squatting down .I even went looking for water in the aft bilges even though it didnt make sense.I also experienced quite serious hobbyhorsing in seas that I didnt think were rough enough to produce the effect I was experiencing.I thought about ways to reduce this and like you, considered a horizontal hull surface at the rear of the boat.However due to work commitments at the time I sold the boat.</p>
<p> I now have another tiki 26 project on the go and a little while ago went over this problem in my head.However I had finished the major work on the lower hulls & didnt want to give myself even more work.I was also worried about the extra surface area drag if I added some sort of fin. So it is really good to know that the winglets are not slowing you significantly .I think I will do something about this problem, but maybe not before I launch .</p>
<p>I am also considering a sprayhood. I have had different ideas & at the moment I am wondering about a hood at the rear of the cockpit.But I have to build a cockpit first! I would love to see pictures of the sprayhood you made if you have any.</p>
<p>Best wishes,</p>
<p>John</p> Thanks Matthias, that's a lot…tag:wharrambuilders.ning.com,2014-01-18:2195841:Comment:1125282014-01-18T20:35:06.601ZRobert Hugheshttp://wharrambuilders.ning.com/profile/RobertHughes
<p>Thanks Matthias, that's a lot of useful information. I agree it's better to over-engineer in this area, as I've always thought the skegs look like one of the more vulnerable parts of these boats.</p>
<p>I get the same problem of water coming up around the seats when sailing fast in rough seas. I'm rebuilding mine to include some locker space under, and at the same time I'm going to try to reduce the amount of water that can come through. I've not yet fully decided on the design for that,…</p>
<p>Thanks Matthias, that's a lot of useful information. I agree it's better to over-engineer in this area, as I've always thought the skegs look like one of the more vulnerable parts of these boats.</p>
<p>I get the same problem of water coming up around the seats when sailing fast in rough seas. I'm rebuilding mine to include some locker space under, and at the same time I'm going to try to reduce the amount of water that can come through. I've not yet fully decided on the design for that, but it will include an extra strip of wood on the cabin sides above the boards to hold them down better, maybe with soft neoprene in the back of the slot. I'll improve the fit to the mast beam, and probably have separate little boxes there to contain the halliards when the sails are up.</p>
<p>Regards</p>
<p>Rob</p>